Document 741

Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 1 of 106 LBTVMAX1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK -------------------------------x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v. GHISLAINE MAXWELL, Defendant. -------------------------------x Jury Trial New York, N.Y. November 29, 2021 8:40 a.m. Before: HON. ALISON J. NATHAN, District Judge APPEARANCES DAMIAN WILLIAMS United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York BY: MAURENE COMEY ALISON MOE LARA POMERANTZ ANDREW ROHRBACH Assistant United States Attorneys HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN Attorneys for Defendant BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL LAURA A. MENNINGER -and- BOBBI C. STERNHEIM -and- RENATO STABILE Also Present: Amanda Young, FBI Paul Byrne, NYPD Sunny Drescher, Paralegal, U.S. Attorney's Office Ann Lundberg, Paralegal, Haddon Morgan and Foreman SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011666 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 1 of 106 LBTVMAX1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK --------------------------------------------------------x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v. GHISLAINE MAXWELL, Defendant. --------------------------------------------------------x Jury Trial New York, N.Y. November 29, 2021 8:40 a.m. Before: HON. ALISON J. NATHAN, District Judge Appearances DAMIAN WILLIAMS United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York BY: MAURENE COMEY ALISON MOE LARA POMERANTZ ANDREW ROHRBACH Assistant United States Attorneys HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN Attorneys for Defendant BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL LAURA A. MENNINGER -and- BOBBI C. STERNHEIM -and- RENATO STABILE Also Present: Amanda Young, FBI Paul Byrne, NYPD Sunny Drescher, Paralegal, U.S. Attorney's Office Ann Lundberg, Paralegal, Haddon Morgan and Foreman SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016111 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 2 of 106 2 LBTVMAX1 (Jury not present) THE DEPUTY CLERK: United States v. Ghislaine Maxwell 20 CR 330. Counsel, please state your name for the record, starting with the government. MS. COMEY: Good morning, your Honor. Maurene Comey, Laura Pomerantz, Alison Moe, and Andrew Rohrbach for the government. Also joining us today is Paralegal Specialist Sunny Drescher, Special Agent Amanda Young of the FBI, and Detective Paul Byrne of the NYPD. THE COURT: Good morning, everyone. MS. STERNHEIM: Good morning. Bobbi C. Sternheim, with Christian Everdell, Laura Menninger, Jeffrey Pagliuca; joining us also is Renato Stabile, for Ghislaine Maxwell, who is present at counsel table. THE COURT: Good morning, everyone. Thank you. Please be seated. Ms. Comey, is the government prepared to proceed to trial today? MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Ms. Sternheim? MS. STERNHEIM: Yes. THE COURT: Thank you. All right. So just first to go over the final stage of jury selection, I think everybody is aware, but make sure SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 2 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 (Jury not present) 2 THE DEPUTY CLERK: United States v. Ghislaine Maxwell 20 CR 330. 3 4 Counsel, please state your name for the record, 5 starting with the government. 6 MS. COMEY: Good morning, your Honor. 7 Maureen Comey, Laura Pomerantz, Alison Moe, and Andrew 8 Rohrbach for the government. Also joining us today is 9 Paralegal Specialist Sunny Drescher, Special Agent Amanda Young 10 of the FBI, and Detective Paul Byrne of the NYPD. 11 THE COURT: Good morning, everyone. 12 MS. STERNHEIM: Good morning. 13 Bobbi C. Sternheim, with Christian Everdell, Laura 14 Menninger, Jeffrey Pagliuca; joining us also is Renato Stabile, 15 for Ghislaine Maxwell, who is present at counsel table. 16 THE COURT: Good morning, everyone. Thank you. 17 Please be seated. 18 Ms. Comey, is the government prepared to proceed to 19 trial today? 20 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: Ms. Sternheim? 22 MS. STERNHEIM: Yes. 23 THE COURT: Thank you. 24 All right. So just first to go over the final stage 25 of jury selection, I think everybody is aware, but make sure SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016112 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 3 of 106 3 LBTVMAX1 we're all on the same page. We're waiting for our 58 remaining jurors to arrive and go to the two courtrooms where they're being held. Once we have everyone -- hopefully we'll have everyone, but once we everyone, the live feed into those two rooms will come on, I'll say good morning to everyone, I'll ask the two questions that we've discussed, whether they've read or heard anything, and whether there's any reason they can't be fair and impartial, and that they should raise their hands if the answer to either of those questions is yes. I believe both teams will have someone in each of the courtrooms; and, of course, we'll have courthouse staff in the courtrooms. And we'll get indication if there are any hands raised. If there are, we'll bring them in one at a time. I'll have them in the witness box and inquire as to what the basis for the yes response is, and we'll deal with that as we would any other jury selection issues. Once we've resolved that, any of those issues with respect to the first 40 people in ascending order, my plan is to have all of those 40 in the same holding courtroom. And then counsel will exercise their peremptories. I have the board with the numbers of the jurors which will be finalized. We'll come to sidebar and alternate strikes for your peremptories. We'll do first with respect to Jurors 1 through 28, the primary juror, ten and six alternating, and then three each with respect to 29 through 40 for the alternates, three SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011668 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 3 of 106 LBTVMAX1 3 we're all on the same page. We're waiting for our 58 remaining jurors to arrive and go to the two courtrooms where they're being held. Once we have everyone -- hopefully we'll have everyone, but once we everyone, the live feed into those two rooms will come on, I'll say good morning to everyone, I'll ask the two questions that we've discussed, whether they've read or heard anything, and whether there's any reason they can't be fair and impartial, and that they should raise their hands if the answer to either of those questions is yes. I believe both teams will have someone in each of the courtrooms; and, of course, we'll have courthouse staff in the courtrooms. And we'll get indication if there are any hands raised. If there are, we'll bring them in one at a time. I'll have them in the witness box and inquire as to what the basis for the yes response is, and we'll deal with that as we would any other jury selection issues. Once we've resolved that, any of those issues with respect to the first 40 people in ascending order, my plan is to have all of those 40 in the same holding courtroom. And then counsel will exercise their peremptories. I have the board with the numbers of the jurors which will be finalized. We'll come to sidebar and alternate strikes for your peremptories. We'll do first with respect to Jurors 1 through 28, the primary juror, ten and six alternating, and then three each with respect to 29 through 40 for the alternates, three SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016113 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 4 of 106 4 each alternating. Once we have our jury selected, my intention is to go back to the live feed to that courtroom, read the numbers of the selected jurors, and then have Ms. Williams escort those jurors to the jury room to put down their things and gather their contact information and the like, rest room and the like. At that point I'll ask counsel if there's any reason why the remaining jurors cannot be dismissed, take any issues, dismiss the jurors who are not selected. And then we'll bring in the jury, and we'll swear them in. Then we'll commence with preliminary instructions that everybody has seen, and opening statements. We will seat the jurors taking account of any unvaccinated jurors, because the district has different distancing rules for unvaccinated jurors -- unvaccinated individuals, if we do have any on the jury. What we'll do is once they're seated, we'll produce a list by where they're seated so that you know which juror is seated where. And that is what I have. Any questions or requests or otherwise? MS. COMEY: Not from the government, your Honor. Thank you. MS. STERNHEIM: I just have one sort of a protocol question. During the prior proceedings, the Court permitted only one counsel to approach for sidebar. Is that going to be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011669 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 4 of 106 LBTVMAX1 each alternating. Once we have our jury selected, my intention is to go back to the live feed to that courtroom, read the numbers of the selected jurors, and then have Ms. Williams escort those jurors to the jury room to put down their things and gather their contact information and the like, rest room and the like. At that point I'll ask counsel if there's any reason why the remaining jurors cannot be dismissed, take any issues, dismiss the jurors who are not selected. And then we'll bring in the jury, and we'll swear them in. Then we'll commence with preliminary instructions that everybody has seen, and opening statements. We will seat the jurors taking account of any unvaccinated jurors, because the district has different distancing rules for unvaccinated jurors -- unvaccinated individuals, if we do have any on the jury. What we'll do is once they're seated, we'll produce a list by where they're seated so that you know which juror is seated where. And that is what I have. Any questions or requests or otherwise? MS. COMEY: Not from the government, your Honor. Thank you. MS. STERNHEIM: I just have one sort of a protocol question. During the prior proceedings, the Court permitted only one counsel to approach for sidebar. Is that going to be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016114 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 5 of 106 5 LBTVMAX1 the routine during trial or may we all participate? THE COURT: I think it's just a distancing question to make sure that we have sufficient space. So maybe what we can do is have kind of a first layer of lawyers -- a first layer of lawyers and then -- MS. STERNHEIM: A backup team. THE COURT: -- a backup team behind them so that we're keeping everyone distances, as is required. MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. I think Mr. Everdell has an issue. MR. EVERDELL: Yes. Thank you, your Honor. Just a matter of choreography. Assuming we do get to witnesses today, pursuant to the Court's instructions, we have a binder of materials for the witness. Once cross begins, we'll need to take just a brief break to deliver the binder to the witness box. And I believe for the first witness we may have some manila folders to hand out to the jurors which we would instruct them not to look at until they are instructed to do. THE COURT: Okay. And does this overlap with the request put in yesterday regarding using video for cross? MR. EVERDELL: It does, your Honor. We have prepared as if we need binders. We still would like that request to be considered so that we can use electronic, but we have prepared the first couple witnesses with binders. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011670 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 5 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 the routine during trial or may we all participate? 2 THE COURT: I think it's just a distancing question to 3 make sure that we have sufficient space. So maybe what we can 4 do is have kind of a first layer of lawyers -- a first layer of 5 lawyers and then -- 6 MS. STERNHEIM: A backup team. 7 THE COURT: -- a backup team behind them so that we're 8 keeping everyone distances, as is required. 9 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 10 I think Mr. Everdell has an issue. 11 MR. EVERDELL: Yes. Thank you, your Honor. 12 Just a matter of choreography. Assuming we do get to 13 witnesses today, pursuant to the Court's instructions, we have 14 a binder of materials for the witness. Once cross begins, 15 we'll need to take just a brief break to deliver the binder to 16 the witness box. And I believe for the first witness we may 17 have some manila folders to hand out to the jurors which we 18 would instruct them not to look at until they are instructed to 19 do. 20 THE COURT: Okay. And does this overlap with the 21 request put in yesterday regarding using video for cross? 22 MR. EVERDELL: It does, your Honor. We have prepared 23 as if we need binders. We still would like that request to be 24 considered so that we can use electronic, but we have prepared 25 the first couple witnesses with binders. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016115 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 6 of 106 6 LBTVMAX1 THE COURT: What I was going to say to that request is essentially what you've done, which is that I'm happy to try with the electronic. So, of course, the concern is that where I've -- in particular, where I have -- I suppose there's two concerns. One, where I've allowed a witness to testify under pseudonym, it's possible that the material that you're using would identify the witness. And so because of the way the room is structured with counsel table screens viewable to the gallery, we have to be cautious of that. And your suggestion was to not put it on counsel's screens, but to put it on my screen, the witness screen, my deputy's screen. And what I was going to say to that is I'm happy to try that, so long as it's completely clear to the government what it is that the witness is looking at and what you're directing the witness to so that there's no discrepancy between what the government is aware that you're showing the witness and what you're showing the witness. So I'm happy to try that so long as you've got paper to enable if that were to fail or if, in any event, so that the government can have precisely what you're showing the witness, and that you're fully describing on the record any aspect of the document that you're identifying for the witness. MR. EVERDELL: Totally clear, your Honor. Absolutely. And the government has informed us that they have copies of the 3500 material, of course, and they have copies of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011671 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 6 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 THE COURT: What I was going to say to that request is essentially what you've done, which is that I'm happy to try with the electronic. So, of course, the concern is that where I've -- in particular, where I have -- I suppose there's two concerns. One, where I've allowed a witness to testify under pseudonym, it's possible that the material that you're using would identify the witness. And so because of the way the room is structured with counsel table screens viewable to the gallery, we have to be cautious of that. 2 And your suggestion was to not put it on counsel's screens, but to put it on my screen, the witness screen, my deputy's screen. And what I was going to say to that is I'm happy to try that, so long as it's completely clear to the government what it is that the witness is looking at and what you're directing the witness to so that there's no discrepancy between what the government is aware that you're showing the witness and what you're showing the witness. 3 So I'm happy to try that so long as you've got paper to enable if that were to fail or if, in any event, so that the government can have precisely what you're showing the witness, and that you're fully describing on the record any aspect of the document that you're identifying for the witness. 4 MR. EVERDELL: Totally clear, your Honor. Absolutely. And the government has informed us that they have copies of the 3500 material, of course, and they have copies of 5 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 6 DOJ-OGR-00016116 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 7 of 106 LBTVMAX1 their own exhibits; so they won't require us to give them paper copies of that. And I believe the Court does as well. So it's only if we are using to refresh or impeach materials that are not 3500 or the government exhibits, at that point we have paper that we can give to the government and to the Court and the Court's deputy. We're just trying to minimize the amount of paper we have to use. THE COURT: Ms. Comey? Ms. Moe? MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. Just two small points on that. I think Mr. Everdell was mentioning handing out binders to the witness and to the jurors for some of those materials. We just want to note that the government has not yet had an opportunity to review those binders, and so we'd ask for an opportunity to review those before they are handed to the jurors or to the witness. With respect to the second issue of -- THE COURT: Well, I guess let's just take the first one. So certainly before anything is shown to the witness or the jurors, the government and I will see the document. I guess the question is to the extent that there's a binder that they may call the jury and the witness's attention to a document at a time, you're requesting to see the full binder in advance? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011672 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 7 of 106 LBTVMAX1 7 their own exhibits; so they won't require us to give them paper copies of that. And I believe the Court does as well. So it's only if we are using to refresh or impeach materials that are not 3500 or the government exhibits, at that point we have paper that we can give to the government and to the Court and the Court's deputy. We're just trying to minimize the amount of paper we have to use. THE COURT: Ms. Comey? Ms. Moe? MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. Just two small points on that. I think Mr. Everdell was mentioning handing out binders to the witness and to the jurors for some of those materials. We just want to note that the government has not yet had an opportunity to review those binders, and so we'd ask for an opportunity to review those before they are handed to the jurors or to the witness. With respect to the second issue of -- THE COURT: Well, I guess let's just take the first one. So certainly before anything is shown to the witness or the jurors, the government and I will see the document. I guess the question is to the extent that there's a binder that they may call the jury and the witness's attention to a document at a time, you're requesting to see the full binder in advance? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016117 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 8 of 106 8 LBTVMAX1 1 MS. MOE: That's correct, your Honor. Just to be able 2 to see the binder before it's passed out to jurors, because they'll 3 have a binder full of paper and be flipping through it to turn to exhibits. We just want to have chance to lay eyes 5 on that binder in an abundance of caution. I've note that we 6 have done the same; we've provided defense counsel with a copy 7 of the binders that we plan to hand out. 8 THE COURT: Can you come closer to the mic please. 9 MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. 10 I would just note that we've done the same; we've 11 provided defense counsel with a copy of the binders that we 12 intend to pass out to the jurors so they can examine it. 13 MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, what we would like to do is 14 follow the practice of this Court that it's been doing forever, 15 as far as I know, which is that before we show anything to the 16 witness, we will show it to the government and we will show it 17 to the Court and the Court's deputy so that they can see what 18 we are showing to the witness. But we do not want to give them 19 a whole binder of cross materials before the cross begins. 20 THE COURT: All right. That's fine. But in that 21 case, we won't place the binder with the jury -- 22 MR. EVERDELL: That's fine. 23 THE COURT: -- in advance. 24 MR. EVERDELL: That's fine. 25 THE COURT: Okay. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011673 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 8 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 MS. MOE: That's correct, your Honor. Just to be able to see the binder before it's passed out to jurors, because they'll have a binder full of paper and be flipping through it to turn to exhibits. We just want to have chance to lay eyes on that binder in an abundance of caution. I've note that we have done the same; we've provided defense counsel with a copy of the binders that we plan to hand out. THE COURT: Can you come closer to the mic please. MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. I would just note that we've done the same; we've provided defense counsel with a copy of the binders that we intend to pass out to the jurors so they can examine it. MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, what we would like to do is follow the practice of this Court that it's been doing forever, as far as I know, which is that before we show anything to the witness, we will show it to the government and we will show it to the Court and the Court's deputy so that they can see what we are showing to the witness. But we do not want to give them a whole binder of cross materials before the cross begins. THE COURT: All right. That's fine. But in that case, we won't place the binder with the jury -- MR. EVERDELL: That's fine. THE COURT: -- in advance. MR. EVERDELL: That's fine. THE COURT: Okay. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016118 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 9 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. 2 The second issue is with respect to the issue of 3 having a screen that the witness sees, but which the government 4 can't see, I think the Court noted there is an issue with the 5 government not being able to follow what the witness is being 6 shown. 7 Our concern in particular is that in a letter defense 8 counsel filed, I think they previewed that they plan to sort of 9 highlight some portions of the documents or flag certain 10 portions on the screen. That is very difficult for us to 11 follow without a mirrored screen. And so because we cannot 12 mirror the screens because they are open to the gallery, that 13 is why we proposed using paper for exhibits like that, and so 14 we ask to proceed that way. 15 THE COURT: Here's my thinking: Let's say they show 16 the paper and then they say, Okay, paragraph 2, read the first 17 sentence. If they want to highlight or make larger that first 18 sentence to ease the reading of it for the witness, if they've 19 described fully what they're doing on the screen, and I'm 20 watching it, I think that's okay and it is not that different 21 than doing it orally and with paper. And I would, of course, 22 allow the same for the government, to the extent that there are 23 documents that you may have a witness look at that can't -- if 24 they can't be projected on the counsel table because it might 25 be identifying, I would permit that as well. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 9 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 MS. MODE: Thank you, your Honor. 2 3 The second issue is with respect to the issue of 4 having a screen that the witness sees, but which the government 5 can't see, I think the Court noted there is an issue with the 6 government not being able to follow what the witness is being 7 shown. 8 Our concern in particular is that in a letter defense 9 counsel filed, I think they previewed that they plan to sort of 10 highlight some portions of the documents or flag certain 11 portions on the screen. That is very difficult for us to 12 follow without a mirrored screen. And so because we cannot 13 mirror the screens because they are open to the gallery, that 14 is why we proposed using paper for exhibits like that, and so 15 we ask to proceed that way. 16 THE COURT: Here's my thinking: Let's say they show 17 the paper and then they say, Okay, paragraph 2, read the first 18 sentence. If they want to highlight or make larger that first 19 sentence to ease the reading of it for the witness, if they've 20 described fully what they're doing on the screen, and I'm 21 watching it, I think that's okay and it is not that different 22 than doing it orally and with paper. And I would, of course, 23 allow the same for the government, to the extent that there are 24 documents that you may have a witness look at that can't -- if 25 they can't be projected on the counsel table because it might 26 be identifying, I would permit that as well. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016119 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 10 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 MS. MOE: Okay. We're happy to give that a shot, your 2 Honor. We just did want to raise that concern about being able 3 to follow along. We also wanted to ask -- 4 THE COURT: And I fully agree with you. 5 And that's why I said we'll give it a shot. They have 6 to be extremely mindful that anything that they're doing or 7 showing the witness has to be fully described on the record and 8 so the government can follow. And if that doesn't work for 9 some reason or I think it's not particularly aiding the review 10 of the evidence, then we'll just do it the old-fashioned way 11 with paper. 12 MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. 13 And finally, we just wanted to know where -- where the 14 screen would be located that those items would be projected to 15 the witness from. So, for example, our paralegal is sitting in 16 the gallery and has a screen there; so we're being careful 17 about what's on her screen to avoid the public seeing that. We 18 just wanted to know where the screen would be in the courtroom 19 that that's being projected from so we can be mindful of that 20 concern. 21 THE COURT: Good question. 22 MS. STERNHEIM: May I have a moment? 23 Ms. Lundberg will be sitting over there where 24 Ms. Menninger is. The screen will not be viewable to the 25 public. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011675 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 10 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 MS. MOE: Okay. We're happy to give that a shot, your 2 Honor. We just did want to raise that concern about being able 3 to follow along. We also wanted to ask -- 4 THE COURT: And I fully agree with you. 5 And that's why I said we'll give it a shot. They have 6 to be extremely mindful that anything that they're doing or 7 showing the witness has to be fully described on the record and 8 so the government can follow. And if that doesn't work for 9 some reason or I think it's not particularly aiding the review 10 of the evidence, then we'll just do it the old-fashioned way 11 with paper. 12 MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. 13 And finally, we just wanted to know where -- where the 14 screen would be located that those items would be projected to 15 the witness from. So, for example, our paralegal is sitting in 16 the gallery and has a screen there; so we're being careful 17 about what's on her screen to avoid the public seeing that. We 18 just wanted to know where the screen would be in the courtroom 19 that that's being projected from so we can be mindful of that 20 concern. 21 THE COURT: Good question. 22 MS. STERNHEIM: May I have a moment? 23 Ms. Lundberg will be sitting over there where 24 Ms. Menninger is. The screen will not be viewable to the 25 public. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016120 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 11 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 MS. MODE: Thank you, your Honor. I appreciate that. 2 THE COURT: Thank you. 3 All right. Let me check where we are. 4 (Pause) 5 THE COURT: We still have a few more jurors coming in 6 through the security line. So I'll wait to get an update. 7 We're getting close, but we're not there yet. 8 Counsel, matters to take up? 9 MS. COMEY: Nothing from the government, your Honor. 10 MS. STERNHEIM: Your Honor, could you just confirm 11 which rooms are the overflow rooms? Is it the fifth floor up 12 here and the first floor down there? 13 THE COURT: For the jurors you mean? 14 MS. STERNHEIM: Yes. 15 THE COURT: Yes, it's the fifth floor and the first 16 floor. 17 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you very much. 18 THE COURT: That's correct. 19 I believe the information I'm getting is that all the 20 jurors are here, but still some going through the security 21 check, which is good. 22 MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, I do have one other thing. 23 THE COURT: Just one moment. 24 MS. STERNHEIM: Sorry. 25 THE COURT: That's okay. Go ahead, Ms. Sternheim. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011676 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 11 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 MS. MODE: Thank you, your Honor. I appreciate that. 2 THE COURT: Thank you. 3 All right. Let me check where we are. 4 (Pause) 5 THE COURT: We still have a few more jurors coming in 6 through the security line. So I'll wait to get an update. 7 We're getting close, but we're not there yet. 8 Counsel, matters to take up? 9 MS. COMEY: Nothing from the government, your Honor. 10 MS. STERNHEIM: Your Honor, could you just confirm 11 which rooms are the overflow rooms? Is it the fifth floor up 12 here and the first floor down there? 13 THE COURT: For the jurors you mean? 14 MS. STERNHEIM: Yes. 15 THE COURT: Yes, it's the fifth floor and the first 16 floor. 17 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you very much. 18 THE COURT: That's correct. 19 I believe the information I'm getting is that all the 20 jurors are here, but still some going through the security 21 check, which is good. 22 MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, I do have one other thing. 23 THE COURT: Just one moment. 24 MS. STERNHEIM: Sorry. 25 THE COURT: That's okay. Go ahead, Ms. Sternheim. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016121 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 12 of 106 12 LBTVMAX1 1 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 2 I just wanted to confirm that in doing alternating 3 strikes, we would start or the government would start. I'm not 4 sure. 5 THE COURT: I think since the defense has ten, the 6 defense should start. 7 MS. STERNHEIM: So two/one, one/two, two/one, and till 8 we get to the one and one and one. 9 THE COURT: That's fine with me. Ms. Comey? 10 MS. COMEY: That's fine with the government, your 11 Honor. 12 THE COURT: Okay. So the defense will do two; 13 government is one; defense, two; government, one. 14 MS. STERNHEIM: Usually it's one and then two. 15 THE COURT: That's fine. 16 MS. STERNHEIM: Alternating. 17 THE COURT: That's fine. Or you can -- as you know, I 18 don't do alternating strikes. 19 MS. STERNHEIM: I know. And I appreciate that -- 20 THE COURT: I've given into the requests of both sides 21 to do it this way. You can just alternate one, one, and the 22 defense goes, or you could do what you proposed. 23 MS. STERNHEIM: I think we're fine with the typical 24 way. 25 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. The typical way is fine. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011677 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 12 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 2 I just wanted to confirm that in doing alternating 3 strikes, we would start or the government would start. I'm not 4 sure. 5 THE COURT: I think since the defense has ten, the 6 defense should start. 7 MS. STERNHEIM: So two/one, one/two, two/one, and till 8 we get to the one and one and one. 9 THE COURT: That's fine with me. Ms. Comey? 10 MS. COMEY: That's fine with the government, your 11 Honor. 12 THE COURT: Okay. So the defense will do two; 13 government is one; defense, two; government, one. 14 MS. STERNHEIM: Usually it's one and then two. 15 THE COURT: That's fine. 16 MS. STERNHEIM: Alternating. 17 THE COURT: That's fine. Or you can -- as you know, I 18 don't do alternating strikes. 19 MS. STERNHEIM: I know. And I appreciate that -- 20 THE COURT: I've given into the requests of both sides 21 to do it this way. You can just alternate one, one, and the 22 defense goes, or you could do what you proposed. 23 MS. STERNHEIM: I think we're fine with the typical 24 way. 25 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. The typical way is fine. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016122 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 13 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 THE COURT: Okay. 2 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 3 THE COURT: Actually, I'm reminded, if we have jurors for me to inquire of, we're going to have them sit in the first seat of the jury box and use a handheld mic. 4 5 6 There is one issue that the parties briefed over the weekend that you requested to be filed under seal to protect the privacy of the witness who I've permitted to testify under pseudonym. I think I have a few questions just to see where exactly we are on that, and I think we should do that at sidebar to protect the privacy interests of the witness who I have allowed to testify under pseudonym. 7 8 9 10 11 12 So we will do that now. 13 (Continued on next page) 14 (Pages 14 to 17 SEALED) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011678 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 13 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 THE COURT: Okay. 2 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 3 THE COURT: Actually, I'm reminded, if we have jurors for me to inquire of, we're going to have them sit in the first seat of the jury box and use a handheld mic. 4 5 6 There is one issue that the parties briefed over the weekend that you requested to be filed under seal to protect the privacy of the witness who I've permitted to testify under pseudonym. I think I have a few questions just to see where exactly we are on that, and I think we should do that at sidebar to protect the privacy interests of the witness who I have allowed to testify under pseudonym. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 So we will do that now. (Continued on next page) (Pages 14 to 17 SEALED) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016123 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 14 of 106 LBTVMAX1 18 1 (In open court) 2 MS. STERNHEIM: Judge? 3 THE COURT: Just a moment. 4 Yes, Ms. Sternheim. 5 MS. STERNHEIM: I'm just inquiring if that format was 6 satisfactory to the Court. 7 THE COURT: I think so. 8 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 9 THE COURT: I think the information I'm getting is 10 that we're missing three jurors who are not yet accounted for 11 on the security line. 12 (Pause) 13 THE COURT: Current status is we're missing one juror 14 from the fifth floor, and two from the first floor. I think 15 we'll give it five more minutes and then I'll move one juror 16 from the first floor to the fifth floor, unless counsel has 17 concerns with that. And I'm not going to tell you who the 18 juror is yet. 19 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, we would just ask whether the 20 Court has attempted to call the missing jurors. 21 THE COURT: That's happening now. 22 MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 23 (Pause) 24 (Continued on next page) 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011679 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 14 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 (In open court) 2 MS. STERNHEIM: Judge? 3 THE COURT: Just a moment. 4 Yes, Ms. Sternheim. 5 MS. STERNHEIM: I'm just inquiring if that format was 6 satisfactory to the Court. 7 THE COURT: I think so. 8 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 9 THE COURT: I think the information I'm getting is 10 that we're missing three jurors who are not yet accounted for 11 on the security line. 12 (Pause) 13 THE COURT: Current status is we're missing one juror 14 from the fifth floor, and two from the first floor. I think 15 we'll give it five more minutes and then I'll move one juror 16 from the first floor to the fifth floor, unless counsel has 17 concerns with that. And I'm not going to tell you who the 18 juror is yet. 19 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, we would just ask whether the 20 Court has attempted to call the missing jurors. 21 THE COURT: That's happening now. 22 MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 23 (Pause) 24 (Continued on next page) 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 15 of 106 19 LBTVMAX1 1 (Jury present) 2 THE COURT: Jurors, you may take your seats as 3 Ms. Williams directs you. Feel free to be seated as you come 4 in. Everyone may be seated. 5 This will not be your permanent seats; we'll get that 6 squared away during the lunch break. 7 But first, let me say good afternoon to you. It's 8 nice to see you all. Thank you very much for your patience. I 9 appreciate you hanging in there with a little bit of delay, but 10 we're now prepared to get started. 11 I will ask Ms. Williams to swear you in as our jurors. 12 (A jury of 12 and six alternates was impaneled and 13 sworn) 14 THE COURT: Thank you so much. You may be seated. 15 Members of the jury, now that you've been sworn, I'm 16 going to give you some instructions about your duties as 17 jurors. At the end of the trial, I'll give you more detailed 18 instructions, and those instructions will control your 19 deliberations in this case. But for now, let me explain how 20 the trial will proceed. 21 The first step in the trial will be opening 22 statements. The government will make an opening statement. 23 After that, I expect the lawyers for the defendant to make an 24 opening statement as well. Those statements are not evidence. 25 They serve no purpose other than to give you an idea in advance 26 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011680 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 15 of 106 LBTVMAX1 19 1 (Jury present) 2 THE COURT: Jurors, you may take your seats as 3 Ms. Williams directs you. Feel free to be seated as you come 4 in. Everyone may be seated. 5 This will not be your permanent seats; we'll get that 6 squared away during the lunch break. 7 But first, let me say good afternoon to you. It's 8 nice to see you all. Thank you very much for your patience. I 9 appreciate you hanging in there with a little bit of delay, but 10 we're now prepared to get started. 11 I will ask Ms. Williams to swear you in as our jurors. 12 (A jury of 12 and six alternates was impaneled and 13 sworn) 14 THE COURT: Thank you so much. You may be seated. 15 Members of the jury, now that you've been sworn, I'm 16 going to give you some instructions about your duties as 17 jurors. At the end of the trial, I'll give you more detailed 18 instructions, and those instructions will control your 19 deliberations in this case. But for now, let me explain how 20 the trial will proceed. 21 The first step in the trial will be opening 22 statements. The government will make an opening statement. 23 After that, I expect the lawyers for the defendant to make an 24 opening statement as well. Those statements are not evidence. 25 They serve no purpose other than to give you an idea in advance SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016125 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 16 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 of the evidence that the lawyers expect you to hear from the witnesses. Those statements permit the lawyers to tell you a little bit of what the case is all about, but the only evidence comes from the witnesses and the exhibits. 2 After opening statements, the government will present its evidence. The government's evidence will consist of the testimony of witnesses, as well as documents and exhibits. The government will examine the witnesses and then the defendant's lawyers may cross-examine them. 3 Following the government's case, the defendant may present a case, if she wishes. Again, because of the presumption of innocence, the defendant is not required to offer any proof. If the defendant does present a defense case, the defense witnesses will testify and the government will have the opportunity to cross-examine them. 4 After the presentation of evidence is completed, the parties will deliver their closing arguments to summarize and interpret the evidence. Just as the parties' opening statements are not evidence, their closing arguments are not evidence either. 5 Following closing arguments, I'll instruct you on the law. Then you will retire to deliberate on your verdict, which must be unanimous; it must be based on the evidence or lack of evidence presented at trial. 6 Your deliberations are secret. You'll never have to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011681 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 16 of 106 LBTVMAX1 20 1 of the evidence that the lawyers expect you to hear from the witnesses. Those statements permit the lawyers to tell you a little bit of what the case is all about, but the only evidence comes from the witnesses and the exhibits. After opening statements, the government will present its evidence. The government's evidence will consist of the testimony of witnesses, as well as documents and exhibits. The government will examine the witnesses and then the defendant's lawyers may cross-examine them. Following the government's case, the defendant may present a case, if she wishes. Again, because of the presumption of innocence, the defendant is not required to offer any proof. If the defendant does present a defense case, the defense witnesses will testify and the government will have the opportunity to cross-examine them. After the presentation of evidence is completed, the parties will deliver their closing arguments to summarize and interpret the evidence. Just as the parties' opening statements are not evidence, their closing arguments are not evidence either. Following closing arguments, I'll instruct you on the law. Then you will retire to deliberate on your verdict, which must be unanimous; it must be based on the evidence or lack of evidence presented at trial. Your deliberations are secret. You'll never have to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016126 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 17 of 106 LBTVMAX1 21 1 explain your verdict to anyone. As I told you, under the law, 2 a defendant in a criminal case is presumed innocent and cannot 3 be found guilty of the crimes charged unless a jury, after 4 hearing all of the evidence in the case, unanimously decides 5 that the evidence proves the defendant guilty beyond a 6 reasonable doubt. 7 In a criminal case, the burden of proof remains with 8 the prosecution, the government. For the jury to return a 9 verdict of guilty as to the defendant, the government must 10 prove that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. 11 A person charged with a crime has absolutely no burden to prove 12 that she's not guilty. And if the defendant chooses not to 13 present any proof, that decision cannot be held against her and 14 may not enter into your deliberations at all. I will, however, 15 instruct you fully on the burden of proof after all of the 16 evidence has been received. 17 Now, let me explain the jobs that you and I are to 18 perform during the trial. 19 I will decide which rules of law to apply to this 20 case. I'll decide that by making legal rulings during the 21 presentation of the evidence and also, as I told you, in giving 22 the final instructions to you after the evidence and arguments 23 are completed. In order to do my job, I may have to interrupt 24 the proceedings from time to time to confer with the parties 25 about the rules of law that should apply here. Sometimes we'll SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011682 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 17 of 106 LBTVMAX1 explain your verdict to anyone. As I told you, under the law, a defendant in a criminal case is presumed innocent and cannot be found guilty of the crimes charged unless a jury, after hearing all of the evidence in the case, unanimously decides that the evidence proves the defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In a criminal case, the burden of proof remains with the prosecution, the government. For the jury to return a verdict of guilty as to the defendant, the government must prove that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. A person charged with a crime has absolutely no burden to prove that she's not guilty. And if the defendant chooses not to present any proof, that decision cannot be held against her and may not enter into your deliberations at all. I will, however, instruct you fully on the burden of proof after all of the evidence has been received. Now, let me explain the jobs that you and I are to perform during the trial. I will decide which rules of law to apply to this case. I'll decide that by making legal rulings during the presentation of the evidence and also, as I told you, in giving the final instructions to you after the evidence and arguments are completed. In order to do my job, I may have to interrupt the proceedings from time to time to confer with the parties about the rules of law that should apply here. Sometimes we'll SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016127 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 18 of 106 LBTVMAX1 22 talk here at the bench outside of your hearing, but some of those conferences may take some more time than others; so as a convenience to you, I may excuse you from the courtroom. I'll try to avoid such interruptions as much as possible, but please be patient and understand that these conferences are necessary to ensure the fairness of the trial and often make the trial go faster. While I decide the law that applies to this case, you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, are the triers of fact. You'll weigh the evidence presented and decide whether the government has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty of the charges in the indictment. You must pay close attention to all of the evidence presented, and you must base your decision only on the evidence in the case and my instructions about the law. What then is evidence? Evidence consists only of the testimony of witnesses, documents, and other things admitted as evidence or stipulations agreed to by the parties. Some of you have probably heard the term "circumstantial evidence, direct evidence." Do not be concerned with these terms. You are to consider all of the evidence given in this trial. Certain things are not evidence and must not be considered by you. The following is a list of what is not evidence: First, arguments, statements, and questions by the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011683 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 18 of 106 LBTVMAX1 22 talk here at the bench outside of your hearing, but some of those conferences may take some more time than others; so as a convenience to you, I may excuse you from the courtroom. I'll try to avoid such interruptions as much as possible, but please be patient and understand that these conferences are necessary to ensure the fairness of the trial and often make the trial go faster. While I decide the law that applies to this case, you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, are the triers of fact. You'll weigh the evidence presented and decide whether the government has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty of the charges in the indictment. You must pay close attention to all of the evidence presented, and you must base your decision only on the evidence in the case and my instructions about the law. What then is evidence? Evidence consists only of the testimony of witnesses, documents, and other things admitted as evidence or stipulations agreed to by the parties. Some of you have probably heard the term "circumstantial evidence, direct evidence." Do not be concerned with these terms. You are to consider all of the evidence given in this trial. Certain things are not evidence and must not be considered by you. The following is a list of what is not evidence: First, arguments, statements, and questions by the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016128 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 19 of 106 23 LBTVMAX1 lawyers are not evidence, nor are statements I make or questions I ask of a witness. Second, objections to questions are not evidence. The lawyers have an obligation to make an objection when they believe evidence being offered is improper under the rules of evidence. You should not be influenced by the objection or by my rulings on them. If the objection is sustained, ignore the question and any answer that may have been given. If it's overruled, treat the answer like any other. If you're instructed that some item of evidence is received for a limited purpose only, you must follow that instruction. Third, the testimony that I've excluded or told you to disregard is not evidence and must not be considered. Fourth, anything you may have seen or heard outside the courtroom is not evidence and must be disregarded. You are to decide this case solely on the evidence presented here in the courtroom. There is no formula to evaluate testimony or exhibits. For now, suffice it to say that you bring with you into this courtroom all of the experience and background of your lives. Do not leave your common sense outside the courtroom. The same types of tests that you use in your everyday dealings are the tests that you should apply in deciding how much weight, if any, to give to the evidence in this case. The law does not require you to accept all of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011684 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 19 of 106 LBTVMAX1 lawyers are not evidence, nor are statements I make or questions I ask of a witness. Second, objections to questions are not evidence. The lawyers have an obligation to make an objection when they believe evidence being offered is improper under the rules of evidence. You should not be influenced by the objection or by my rulings on them. If the objection is sustained, ignore the question and any answer that may have been given. If it's overruled, treat the answer like any other. If you're instructed that some item of evidence is received for a limited purpose only, you must follow that instruction. Third, the testimony that I've excluded or told you to disregard is not evidence and must not be considered. Fourth, anything you may have seen or heard outside the courtroom is not evidence and must be disregarded. You are to decide this case solely on the evidence presented here in the courtroom. There is no formula to evaluate testimony or exhibits. For now, suffice it to say that you bring with you into this courtroom all of the experience and background of your lives. Do not leave your common sense outside the courtroom. The same types of tests that you use in your everyday dealings are the tests that you should apply in deciding how much weight, if any, to give to the evidence in this case. The law does not require you to accept all of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016129 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 20 of 106 LBTVMAX1 24 evidence admitted at trial. In determining what evidence you accept, you must make your own evaluation from the testimony of each of the witnesses and the exhibits that are received in evidence. It is essential, however, that you keep an open mind until you've heard all of the evidence in the case. A case can be presented only step by step, witness by witness, before all evidence is before you. As you know from your experience, you can hear one person give his or her version of an event and think it sounds very impressive or even compelling; and yet, upon hearing another person's version of the same event or even the same person cross-examined with respect to the event, things may seem very different. In other words, there may be another side to any witness's story. You should use your common sense and good judgment to evaluate each witness's testimony based on all of the circumstances. Again, I can't emphasize too strongly that you must keep an open mind until the trial is over. You should not reach any conclusion until you have all of the evidence before you. As I mentioned during jury selection, this case has received and will continue to receive significant attention in the media. To protect their privacy, I have permitted witnesses, if they choose, to be referred to in open court by either their first name or a pseudonym. The full names of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011685 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 20 of 106 LBTVMAX1 evidence admitted at trial. In determining what evidence you accept, you must make your own evaluation from the testimony of each of the witnesses and the exhibits that are received in evidence. It is essential, however, that you keep an open mind until you've heard all of the evidence in the case. A case can be presented only step by step, witness by witness, before all evidence is before you. As you know from your experience, you can hear one person give his or her version of an event and think it sounds very impressive or even compelling; and yet, upon hearing another person's version of the same event or even the same person cross-examined with respect to the event, things may seem very different. In other words, there may be another side to any witness's story. You should use your common sense and good judgment to evaluate each witness's testimony based on all of the circumstances. Again, I can't emphasize too strongly that you must keep an open mind until the trial is over. You should not reach any conclusion until you have all of the evidence before you. As I mentioned during jury selection, this case has received and will continue to receive significant attention in the media. To protect their privacy, I have permitted witnesses, if they choose, to be referred to in open court by either their first name or a pseudonym. The full names of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016130 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 21 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 witnesses are known to the government, the defendant, to the 2 Court, and were shown to you during jury selection. This 3 process should not bear in any way on your evaluation of the 4 evidence in this case. 5 6 Finally, let me caution you about certain rules and 7 principles governing your conduct as jurors in this case. 8 9 First, you must not talk to each other about this case 10 or about anyone who has anything to do with this case until the 11 end of the case, when you go to the jury room and decide your 12 verdict. And the reason for this requirement is that you must 13 not reach any conclusion on the charges until all of the 14 evidence is in. As I've said, keep an open mind until you 15 start your deliberations at the end of the case. 16 17 Second, do not communicate with anyone else about the 18 case or about anyone having anything to do with it until the 19 trial has ended and you've been discharged as jurors. "Anyone 20 else" includes members of your family and your friends. And 21 "no communicating about the case" means no communicating on 22 your cell phone, iPhone, BlackBerry, text messaging, websites, 23 internet chat rooms, email, social media websites or 24 applications, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, 25 You Tube, Reddit, etc., or by any other means. I know in this 26 day and age there's a temptation to look at these devices or 27 means of communication; but with your oath, you are making a 28 commitment to resist that temptation. Of course, you may tell SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011686 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 21 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 witnesses are known to the government, the defendant, to the Court, and were shown to you during jury selection. This process should not bear in any way on your evaluation of the evidence in this case. 5 Finally, let me caution you about certain rules and principles governing your conduct as jurors in this case. 7 First, you must not talk to each other about this case or about anyone who has anything to do with this case until the end of the case, when you go to the jury room and decide your verdict. And the reason for this requirement is that you must not reach any conclusion on the charges until all of the evidence is in. As I've said, keep an open mind until you start your deliberations at the end of the case. 14 Second, do not communicate with anyone else about the case or about anyone having anything to do with it until the trial has ended and you've been discharged as jurors. "Anyone else" includes members of your family and your friends. And "no communicating about the case" means no communicating on your cell phone, iPhone, BlackBerry, text messaging, websites, internet chat rooms, email, social media websites or applications, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, You Tube, Reddit, etc., or by any other means. I know in this day and age there's a temptation to look at these devices or means of communication; but with your oath, you are making a commitment to resist that temptation. Of course, you may tell SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016131 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 22 of 106 26 LBTVMAX1 your family and friends that you're a juror in a criminal case, but you may not tell them anything else about it until you've been discharged by me. Third, do not let anyone talk to you about the case or about anyone who has anything to do with it. If any person should attempt to communicate with you about this case at any time throughout the trial, either in or out of the courthouse, you must immediately report that to my deputy, Ms. Williams, and to no one else. Ms. Williams will report it to me. And when I say report that communication to no one else, I mean you should not tell anyone, including your fellow jurors. To minimize the probability of any such improper communication, it is important that you go straight to the jury room when you come in in the morning, and that you remain in the jury room for the duration of the trial day. You should not linger in the public areas of the courthouse on this floor or elsewhere on your way in and out. Fourth, do not do any research or any investigation about the case or about anyone who has anything to do with the case on your own. Don't go visit any place described in the trial, don't read or listen to or watch any news reports about the case, don't go on the internet or use whatever digital or communications device it is you use to see what you can learn to inform yourself about this matter. Again, I know that in this day and age there is a temptation, but as I've made clear SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011687 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 22 of 106 LBTVMAX1 26 your family and friends that you're a juror in a criminal case, but you may not tell them anything else about it until you've been discharged by me. Third, do not let anyone talk to you about the case or about anyone who has anything to do with it. If any person should attempt to communicate with you about this case at any time throughout the trial, either in or out of the courthouse, you must immediately report that to my deputy, Ms. Williams, and to no one else. Ms. Williams will report it to me. And when I say report that communication to no one else, I mean you should not tell anyone, including your fellow jurors. To minimize the probability of any such improper communication, it is important that you go straight to the jury room when you come in in the morning, and that you remain in the jury room for the duration of the trial day. You should not linger in the public areas of the courthouse on this floor or elsewhere on your way in and out. Fourth, do not do any research or any investigation about the case or about anyone who has anything to do with the case on your own. Don't go visit any place described in the trial, don't read or listen to or watch any news reports about the case, don't go on the internet or use whatever digital or communications device it is you use to see what you can learn to inform yourself about this matter. Again, I know that in this day and age there is a temptation, but as I've made clear SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016132 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 23 of 106 27 LBTVMAX1 1 throughout this process, this rule is very, very important. 2 That's because your decision in this case must be made solely 3 on the evidence or lack of evidence presented at this trial. 4 In other words, all that you need to know will be presented 5 here in open court by the parties. This is critically 6 important to ensuring a fair trial, which I know that all of 7 you would want if you were a party in this court, and I have no 8 doubt it's what you want for the parties who are here today. I 9 expect you to inform me immediately through Ms. Williams if you 10 become aware of another juror's violation of these 11 instructions. 12 Finally, each of you either has or will be given a 13 notebook and pen; and that's because I permit jurors to take 14 notes. But you don't have to take notes. Notes are just an 15 aid to your own recollection. The court reporters in this case 16 record everything that's said in the courtroom, and any portion 17 of the testimony can be read back to you during your 18 deliberations. If you do take notes, be aware that note-taking 19 may distract you from something important that's happening on 20 the witness stand. Whether or not you take notes, rely on your 21 own recollections and don't be influenced by the fact that 22 another juror has taken notes. If you do take notes, all notes 23 must be left each day in the jury room. Ms. Williams will make 24 sure that they are secure. 25 From this point until the time when you retire to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011688 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 23 of 106 LBTVMAX1 27 throughout this process, this rule is very, very important. That's because your decision in this case must be made solely on the evidence or lack of evidence presented at this trial. In other words, all that you need to know will be presented here in open court by the parties. This is critically important to ensuring a fair trial, which I know that all of you would want if you were a party in this court, and I have no doubt it's what you want for the parties who are here today. I expect you to inform me immediately through Ms. Williams if you become aware of another juror's violation of these instructions. Finally, each of you either has or will be given a notebook and pen; and that's because I permit jurors to take notes. But you don't have to take notes. Notes are just an aid to your own recollection. The court reporters in this case record everything that's said in the courtroom, and any portion of the testimony can be read back to you during your deliberations. If you do take notes, be aware that note-taking may distract you from something important that's happening on the witness stand. Whether or not you take notes, rely on your own recollections and don't be influenced by the fact that another juror has taken notes. If you do take notes, all notes must be left each day in the jury room. Ms. Williams will make sure that they are secure. From this point until the time when you retire to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016133 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 24 of 106 28 LBTVMAX1 1 deliberate, it is your duty not to discuss this case with 2 anyone and not to remain in the presence of other persons who 3 may be discussing this case. And this includes discussions 4 even with members of your own family and your friends. In this 5 regard, please understand that the parties and the counsel in 6 this case have been instructed by me to have no contact with 7 any of you, not even to offer a friendly greeting. So if you 8 happen to see any of them outside this courtroom and they don't 9 acknowledge you, say hello, or make small talk, please do not 10 take offense. They are not being rude; they are following my 11 instructions. 12 That concludes my preliminary instructions to you. 13 We will begin after lunch with the initial stage of 14 the case, which, as I said to you, is opening statements, and 15 we'll begin when you return from lunch with the government. 16 Let me just note, as I've said in the beginning of 17 jury selection, we are in an outfitted courtroom for COVID 18 times. The witness will testify -- witnesses will testify in 19 this Plexiglas box that has a HEPA filter, and they will remove 20 their mask to testify when we have witnesses testify. The 21 lawyer who will be questioning them and the lawyer during 22 opening statements, for example, will be in that Plexiglas box 23 which also has a HEPA filter, and they'll be permitted to 24 remove their mask while they provide opening statements as 25 well. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011689 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 24 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 deliberate, it is your duty not to discuss this case with 2 anyone and not to remain in the presence of other persons who 3 may be discussing this case. And this includes discussions 4 even with members of your own family and your friends. In this 5 regard, please understand that the parties and the counsel in 6 this case have been instructed by me to have no contact with 7 any of you, not even to offer a friendly greeting. So if you 8 happen to see any of them outside this courtroom and they don't 9 acknowledge you, say hello, or make small talk, please do not 10 take offense. They are not being rude; they are following my 11 instructions. 12 That concludes my preliminary instructions to you. 13 We will begin after lunch with the initial stage of 14 the case, which, as I said to you, is opening statements, and 15 we'll begin when you return from lunch with the government. 16 Let me just note, as I've said in the beginning of 17 jury selection, we are in an outfitted courtroom for COVID 18 times. The witness will testify -- witnesses will testify in 19 this Plexiglas box that has a HEPA filter, and they will remove 20 their mask to testify when we have witnesses testify. The 21 lawyer who will be questioning them and the lawyer during 22 opening statements, for example, will be in that Plexiglas box 23 which also has a HEPA filter, and they'll be permitted to 24 remove their mask while they provide opening statements as 25 well. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016134 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 25 of 106 LBTVMAX1 1 So we are going to break for lunch which Ms. Williams has arranged. Please bear all of my instructions in mind. 2 We'll break for 45 minutes for you to enjoy your lunch and for everyone else to take a lunch break. We will return in 45 3 minutes with opening statements. And we will stop at 5 p.m. 4 today. Thank you for your attention. 5 (Jury not present) 6 THE COURT: All right. Matters to take up, counsel? 7 MS. COMEY: No, your Honor. 8 MS. STERNHEIM: No, thank you. 9 THE COURT: All right. We'll see you in 45. 10 We're breaking for lunch. Thank you. 11 (Luncheon recess) 12 (Continued on next page) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011690 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 25 of 106 LBTVMAX1 29 1 So we are going to break for lunch which Ms. Williams has arranged. Please bear all of my instructions in mind. 2 3 We'll break for 45 minutes for you to enjoy your lunch and for everyone else to take a lunch break. We will return in 45 4 5 minutes with opening statements. And we will stop at 5 p.m. 6 today. Thank you for your attention. 7 (Jury not present) 8 THE COURT: All right. Matters to take up, counsel? 9 MS. COMEY: No, your Honor. 10 MS. STERNHEIM: No, thank you. 11 THE COURT: All right. We'll see you in 45. 12 We're breaking for lunch. Thank you. 13 (Luncheon recess) 14 (Continued on next page) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016135 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 26 of 106 30 LBTCMAX2 AFTERNOON SESSION (In open court) (Jury not present) THE COURT: Any matters to take up? MS. POMERANTZ: Not from the government. Thank you, your Honor. MS. STERNHEIM: No, thank you. THE COURT: Okay. We can bring in the jury. Ms. Pomerantz, you're welcome to get situated in the podium. MS. POMERANTZ: Thank you, your Honor. THE COURT: Just as a note while we're waiting, learned from the DE we have many overflow courtrooms up and running. We've accommodated everyone who has sought to observe trial in those overflow rooms, and apparently still have space for others. So my thanks to the district executive's office and the clerk's office for facilitating that public access. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011691 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 26 of 106 LBTCMAX2 1 AFTERNOON SESSION 2 (In open court) 3 (Jury not present) 4 THE COURT: Any matters to take up? 5 MS. POMERANTZ: Not from the government. Thank you, 6 your Honor. 7 MS. STERNHEIM: No, thank you. 8 THE COURT: Okay. We can bring in the jury. 9 Ms. Pomerantz, you're welcome to get situated in the 10 podium. 11 MS. POMERANTZ: Thank you, your Honor. 12 THE COURT: Just as a note while we're waiting, 13 learned from the DE we have many overflow courtrooms up and 14 running. We've accommodated everyone who has sought to observe 15 trial in those overflow rooms, and apparently still have space 16 for others. So my thanks to the district executive's office 17 and the clerk's office for facilitating that public access. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016136 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 27 of 106 31 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz (Jury present) THE COURT: Thank you so much, members of the jury. I hope you had a pleasant lunch. I understand it's cold in the jury room and that the facilities department is working on that. I apologize about that. Please do let Ms. Williams know if there are any issues like that and we'll address them as soon as we can. We turn now to opening statements beginning with opening statements of the government. I ask you to please give your full attention to Ms. Pomerantz who will be making the opening statement for the government. MS. POMERANTZ: I want to tell you about a young girl named Jane. It was 1994 and Jane was spending her summer at a camp for talented young kids. Jane turned 14 years old that summer. She was sitting at a picnic table with friends when a man and a woman walked by. The man introduced himself as a donor who gave scholarships to students at this camp. The man and the woman spoke with Jane and, after discovering they all lived in Palm Beach, Florida, they asked Jane for her phone number. What Jane didn't know then was that this meeting at summer camp was the beginning of a nightmare that would last for years, that this meeting would pull Jane into a relationship with the man and the woman who were each more than double her age. What she didn't know then was that this man SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011692 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 27 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 (Jury present) 2 THE COURT: Thank you so much, members of the jury. I hope you had a pleasant lunch. I understand it's cold in the jury room and that the facilities department is working on that. I apologize about that. Please do let Ms. Williams know if there are any issues like that and we'll address them as soon as we can. 3 We turn now to opening statements beginning with opening statements of the government. I ask you to please give your full attention to Ms. Pomerantz who will be making the opening statement for the government. 4 MS. POMERANTZ: I want to tell you about a young girl named Jane. It was 1994 and Jane was spending her summer at a camp for talented young kids. Jane turned 14 years old that summer. She was sitting at a picnic table with friends when a man and a woman walked by. The man introduced himself as a donor who gave scholarships to students at this camp. The man and the woman spoke with Jane and, after discovering they all lived in Palm Beach, Florida, they asked Jane for her phone number. 5 What Jane didn't know then was that this meeting at summer camp was the beginning of a nightmare that would last for years, that this meeting would pull Jane into a relationship with the man and the woman who were each more than double her age. What she didn't know then was that this man SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016137 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 28 of 106 32 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 and woman were predators. What Jane didn't understand then or 2 what you will learn at this trial was that this meeting was the 3 beginning of that man and woman targeting Jane for sexual abuse 4 that would last for years. 5 Jane was not their only victim. There were other 6 young girls, teenagers who the man and woman targeted for 7 sexual abuse. Who was that woman targeting young girls for 8 sexual abuse? It was the defendant, Ghislaine Maxwell. 9 The defendant took these girls on shopping trips, 10 asked them about their lives, their schools, their families. 11 She won their trust. She discussed sexual topics with them. 12 She helped normalize abusive sexual conduct. She put them at 13 ease and made them feel safe all so that they could be molested 14 by a middle-aged man. 15 She knew what was going to happen to those girls. The 16 defendant walked the girls into a room where she knew that man 17 would molest them, and there were times when she was in the 18 room when it happened, making it all feel normal and casual. 19 That is why we are here today, because between 1994 20 and 2004, the defendant sexually exploited young girls. She 21 preyed on vulnerable young girls, manipulated them, and served 22 them up to be sexually abused. The defendant was trafficking 23 kids for sex. That is what this trial is all about. 24 Ladies and gentlemen, this opening statement is the 25 government's opportunity to give you a roadmap of the evidence SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011693 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 28 of 106 LBTMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 and woman were predators. What Jane didn't understand then or 2 what you will learn at this trial was that this meeting was the 3 beginning of that man and woman targeting Jane for sexual abuse 4 that would last for years. 5 Jane was not their only victim. There were other 6 young girls, teenagers who the man and woman targeted for 7 sexual abuse. Who was that woman targeting young girls for 8 sexual abuse? It was the defendant, Ghislaine Maxwell. 9 The defendant took these girls on shopping trips, 10 asked them about their lives, their schools, their families. 11 She won their trust. She discussed sexual topics with them. 12 She helped normalize abusive sexual conduct. She put them at 13 ease and made them feel safe all so that they could be molested 14 by a middle-aged man. 15 She knew what was going to happen to those girls. The 16 defendant walked the girls into a room where she knew that man 17 would molest them, and there were times when she was in the 18 room when it happened, making it all feel normal and casual. 19 That is why we are here today, because between 1994 20 and 2004, the defendant sexually exploited young girls. She 21 preyed on vulnerable young girls, manipulated them, and served 22 them up to be sexually abused. The defendant was trafficking 23 kids for sex. That is what this trial is all about. 24 Ladies and gentlemen, this opening statement is the 25 government's opportunity to give you a roadmap of the evidence SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016138 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 29 of 106 33 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz that you're going to see in this case, and I'm going to do that in two parts. First, I will tell you what I expect the evidence is going to show. Second, I'm going to talk about the different types of evidence that will prove that Ghislaine Maxwell is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So what will the evidence show? You're going to learn that the man and woman I just mentioned were Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Maxwell was Epstein's best friend and right hand. Epstein was a multimillionaire connected to famous and powerful people. He lived a life of extraordinary luxury. He owned many properties, including a villa in Palm Beach, Florida, a mansion in Manhattan, a ranch in New Mexico, and an apartment in Paris. He even owned an entire private island in the United States Virgin Islands. And he had staff who worked for him in his various homes. Epstein also owned private planes. He had pilots who worked for him full-time, flying him to his properties and other locations in the United States and internationally. The defendant got to enjoy that luxury right along with Epstein. Starting in the early 1990s, the defendant was in a personal intimate relationship with Epstein, they were a couple for many years, and when their relationship ended, they remained, in the defendant's own words, the best of friends. The defendant was Epstein's closest associate and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011694 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 29 of 106 33 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz that you're going to see in this case, and I'm going to do that in two parts. First, I will tell you what I expect the evidence is going to show. Second, I'm going to talk about the different types of evidence that will prove that Ghislaine Maxwell is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So what will the evidence show? You're going to learn that the man and woman I just mentioned were Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Maxwell was Epstein's best friend and right hand. Epstein was a multimillionaire connected to famous and powerful people. He lived a life of extraordinary luxury. He owned many properties, including a villa in Palm Beach, Florida, a mansion in Manhattan, a ranch in New Mexico, and an apartment in Paris. He even owned an entire private island in the United States Virgin Islands. And he had staff who worked for him in his various homes. Epstein also owned private planes. He had pilots who worked for him full-time, flying him to his properties and other locations in the United States and internationally. The defendant got to enjoy that luxury right along with Epstein. Starting in the early 1990s, the defendant was in a personal intimate relationship with Epstein, they were a couple for many years, and when their relationship ended, they remained, in the defendant's own words, the best of friends. The defendant was Epstein's closest associate and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016139 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 30 of 106 LBTCMAX2 34 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 second in command. She was involved in every detail of 2 Epstein's life. During the ten years the defendant and Epstein 3 committed these crimes together, the defendant was the lady of 4 the house. She ran Epstein's various properties, hiring and 5 firing employees. She imposed rules, instructing employees to 6 not speak directly with Epstein or talking with other people 7 visiting Epstein's homes. When she took charge of those homes, 8 the rules for staff were strict. Employees were to see 9 nothing, hear nothing, say nothing. There was a culture of 10 silence. That was by design, the defendant's design, because 11 behind closed doors, the defendant and Epstein were committing 12 heinous crimes. They were sexually abusing teenage girls. 13 The defendant and Epstein were partners in crime. 14 They had a playbook. First, they got access to young girls, 15 then they gained their trust. They learned about each girl's 16 hopes and dreams. They learned about each girl's families, 17 often targeting the daughters of single mothers. The defendant 18 and Epstein promised these girls the world. Some of the girls 19 had difficult home lives and came from families that were 20 struggling to make ends meet. The defendant and Epstein were 21 wealthy, powerful, and well connected, and they flaunted it. 22 They made sure everybody knew. The defendant and Epstein made 23 young girls believe that their dreams could come true. They 24 figured out what the girls dreamed of becoming when they grew 25 up and they promised to help, promised to help pay for school, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011695 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 30 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 second in command. She was involved in every detail of 2 Epstein's life. During the ten years the defendant and Epstein 3 committed these crimes together, the defendant was the lady of 4 the house. She ran Epstein's various properties, hiring and 5 firing employees. She imposed rules, instructing employees to 6 not speak directly with Epstein or talking with other people 7 visiting Epstein's homes. When she took charge of those homes, 8 the rules for staff were strict. Employees were to see 9 nothing, hear nothing, say nothing. There was a culture of 10 silence. That was by design, the defendant's design, because 11 behind closed doors, the defendant and Epstein were committing 12 heinous crimes. They were sexually abusing teenage girls. 13 The defendant and Epstein were partners in crime. 14 They had a playbook. First, they got access to young girls, 15 then they gained their trust. They learned about each girl's 16 hopes and dreams. They learned about each girl's families, 17 often targeting the daughters of single mothers. The defendant 18 and Epstein promised these girls the world. Some of the girls 19 had difficult home lives and came from families that were 20 struggling to make ends meet. The defendant and Epstein were 21 wealthy, powerful, and well connected, and they flaunted it. 22 They made sure everybody knew. The defendant and Epstein made 23 young girls believe that their dreams could come true. They 24 figured out what the girls dreamed of becoming when they grew 25 up and they promised to help, promised to help pay for school, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016140 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 31 of 106 35 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 become actresses, models, professional musicians. They made 2 these girls feel seen, they made them feel special, but that 3 was a cover, a cover that enabled the defendant and Epstein to 4 operate in plain sight. They were wealthy and influential 5 people who used that cover to make the girls and their parents 6 feel comfortable and safe. 7 But what came next was anything but safe. The next 8 stage involved getting the girls comfortable with sexual 9 contact involving Epstein. To do this, the defendant discussed 10 sexual topics with the girls and then she used the same excuse 11 over and over to get the girls to touch Epstein - massage. You 12 will learn that the cover of massage was the primary way the 13 defendant and Epstein lured girls into sexual abuse. The 14 defendant massaged Epstein in front of the girls, then she 15 encouraged the girls to massage Epstein. 16 You see, Epstein's Palm Beach villa and his Manhattan 17 mansion each had a room used for massage, massage rooms filled 18 with photographs of naked females. Epstein brought girls into 19 his massage room every single day. But what was happening 20 inside those massage rooms was not a massage - it was sexual 21 abuse. Calling it a massage was a rouse, a rouse designed to 22 get young girls to touch Epstein, an excuse for Epstein to 23 touch the girls. 24 And before I describe those so called massages for 25 you, let me just say, I know this is hard to hear, but these SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011696 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 31 of 106 LBTCMAX2 35 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 become actresses, models, professional musicians. They made 2 these girls feel seen, they made them feel special, but that 3 was a cover, a cover that enabled the defendant and Epstein to 4 operate in plain sight. They were wealthy and influential 5 people who used that cover to make the girls and their parents 6 feel comfortable and safe. 7 8 But what came next was anything but safe. The next stage involved getting the girls comfortable with sexual 9 contact involving Epstein. To do this, the defendant discussed 10 sexual topics with the girls and then she used the same excuse 11 over and over to get the girls to touch Epstein - massage. You 12 will learn that the cover of massage was the primary way the 13 defendant and Epstein lured girls into sexual abuse. The 14 defendant massaged Epstein in front of the girls, then she 15 encouraged the girls to massage Epstein. 16 17 You see, Epstein's Palm Beach villa and his Manhattan 18 mansion each had a room used for massage, massage rooms filled 19 with photographs of naked females. Epstein brought girls into 20 his massage room every single day. But what was happening 21 inside those massage rooms was not a massage - it was sexual 22 abuse. Calling it a massage was a rouse, a rouse designed to 23 get young girls to touch Epstein, an excuse for Epstein to 24 touch the girls. 25 And before I describe those so called massages for you, let me just say, I know this is hard to hear, but these SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016141 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 32 of 106 LBTCMAX2 1 are the facts of the case. This is what happened to these 2 children. These are the crimes the defendant and Epstein committed. 3 4 The sexual abuse started with Epstein lying facedown 5 for so called massages, but escalated as he turned over and 6 touched the girls. And they escalated beyond that. Epstein 7 touched the teenage girls' vaginas with a massager device or a 8 vibrator. He directed girls to massage him while he 9 masturbated. He sometimes touched the girls' breasts or 10 vaginas. He sometimes received oral sex, and he sometimes 11 penetrated the girls' vaginas with his penis. The defendant 12 helped Epstein find those girls. She helped him recruit girls 13 for so called massages. She manipulated the girls, groomed 14 them for abuse, helped the girls feel comfortable as 15 friendliness escalated to abuse. Sometimes she was even in the 16 room for the massages herself, and sometimes she touched the 17 girls' bodies. 18 And even when she was not in the room, make no 19 mistake, she knew exactly what Epstein was going to do to those 20 children when she sent them to him inside the massage rooms, 21 massage rooms inside the houses the defendant ran for over a 22 decade. When the defendant sent a 14-year-old girl into a 23 massage room with an adult man, she knew exactly what was going 24 to happen. 25 The defendant was essential to this scheme. As an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011697 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 32 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 are the facts of the case. This is what happened to these 2 children. These are the crimes the defendant and Epstein committed. 3 4 The sexual abuse started with Epstein lying facedown 5 for so called massages, but escalated as he turned over and 6 touched the girls. And they escalated beyond that. Epstein 7 touched the teenage girls' vaginas with a massager device or a 8 vibrator. He directed girls to massage him while he 9 masturbated. He sometimes touched the girls' breasts or 10 vaginas. He sometimes received oral sex, and he sometimes 11 penetrated the girls' vaginas with his penis. The defendant 12 helped Epstein find those girls. She helped him recruit girls 13 for so called massages. She manipulated the girls, groomed 14 them for abuse, helped the girls feel comfortable as 15 friendliness escalated to abuse. Sometimes she was even in the 16 room for the massages herself, and sometimes she touched the 17 girls' bodies. 18 And even when she was not in the room, make no 19 mistake, she knew exactly what Epstein was going to do to those 20 children when she sent them to him inside the massage rooms, 21 massage rooms inside the houses the defendant ran for over a 22 decade. When the defendant sent a 14-year-old girl into a 23 massage room with an adult man, she knew exactly what was going 24 to happen. 25 The defendant was essential to this scheme. As an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016142 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 33 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 adult woman, she was able to provide a cover of respectability 2 to Epstein that lulled these girls and their families into a 3 false sense of security. She was in on it from the start. The 4 defendant and Epstein lured their victims with the promise of a 5 brighter future only to sexually exploit them and forever 6 change their lives. And while this horrific abuse was going on 7 behind closed doors, the defendant was jet setting in private 8 planes and living a life of extraordinary luxury. These girls 9 were just a means to support her lifestyle, a way for the 10 defendant to make sure that Epstein - who demanded constant 11 sexual gratification from young girls - remained satisfied so 12 that the defendant could stay in the lifestyle to which she was 13 accustomed. 14 So what happened to Jane, the 14-year-old who met the 15 defendant and Epstein at her summer camp in 1994? You will 16 hear from Jane about the day she met these predators. You'll 17 hear that after Jane returned to Florida from camp, someone 18 from Epstein's office reached out to Jane and invited her to 19 Epstein's house in Palm Beach for tea. Jane went to Epstein's 20 house with her mother. Epstein explained that he liked to 21 mentor young talented people, that he gave scholarships and 22 that he wanted to help Jane. 23 Jane started spending time with the defendant and 24 Epstein at Epstein's house in Palm Beach. Jane was 14 years 25 old. She was a kid. Epstein was in his early 40s, the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011698 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 33 of 106 LBTCMAX2 37 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 adult woman, she was able to provide a cover of respectability 2 to Epstein that lulled these girls and their families into a 3 false sense of security. She was in on it from the start. The 4 defendant and Epstein lured their victims with the promise of a 5 brighter future only to sexually exploit them and forever 6 change their lives. And while this horrific abuse was going on 7 behind closed doors, the defendant was jet setting in private 8 planes and living a life of extraordinary luxury. These girls 9 were just a means to support her lifestyle, a way for the 10 defendant to make sure that Epstein - who demanded constant 11 sexual gratification from young girls - remained satisfied so 12 that the defendant could stay in the lifestyle to which she was 13 accustomed. 14 So what happened to Jane, the 14-year-old who met the 15 defendant and Epstein at her summer camp in 1994? You will 16 hear from Jane about the day she met these predators. You'll 17 hear that after Jane returned to Florida from camp, someone 18 from Epstein's office reached out to Jane and invited her to 19 Epstein's house in Palm Beach for tea. Jane went to Epstein's 20 house with her mother. Epstein explained that he liked to 21 mentor young talented people, that he gave scholarships and 22 that he wanted to help Jane. 23 Jane started spending time with the defendant and 24 Epstein at Epstein's house in Palm Beach. Jane was 14 years 25 old. She was a kid. Epstein was in his early 40s, the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016143 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 34 of 106 38 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz defendant was in her early 30s - they were adults. They were each more than double her age. Yet, they were befriending a child. They pretended to be Jane's friend. They took her to the movies and on shopping trips. Jane spent time with the defendant and Epstein at Epstein's house in Palm Beach, often by the pool. During those visits, Epstein regularly gave Jane hundreds of dollars, knowing that her family needed the money. He also paid for voice lessons for Jane. During those visits, the defendant asked Jane about her life, but that wasn't all that happened during those visits. Within that first year, while Jane was just 14 years old, Epstein started sexually abusing Jane. He did not abuse her alone. There were times when the defendant was in the room. She was in the room for the abuse, making it feel okay that a man in his 40s was naked and touching Jane's body. There were times when the defendant undressed in front of Jane, times when the defendant was in the room when Jane undressed in front of Epstein, and she was sometimes in the room when Epstein engaged in sex acts with Jane. The sexual abuse, these horrifying massages occurred frequently. It continued for years when Jane was 14, when Jane was 15, when Jane was 16, it went on for years. And the abuse was not limited to Palm Beach, Florida. Both the defendant and Epstein encouraged Jane to travel with SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011699 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 34 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 defendant was in her early 30s - they were adults. They were 2 each more than double her age. Yet, they were befriending a 3 child. They pretended to be Jane's friend. They took her to 4 the movies and on shopping trips. Jane spent time with the 5 defendant and Epstein at Epstein's house in Palm Beach, often 6 by the pool. 7 During those visits, Epstein regularly gave Jane 8 hundreds of dollars, knowing that her family needed the money. 9 He also paid for voice lessons for Jane. During those visits, 10 the defendant asked Jane about her life, but that wasn't all 11 that happened during those visits. 12 Within that first year, while Jane was just 14 years 13 old, Epstein started sexually abusing Jane. He did not abuse 14 her alone. There were times when the defendant was in the 15 room. She was in the room for the abuse, making it feel okay 16 that a man in his 40s was naked and touching Jane's body. 17 There were times when the defendant undressed in front of 18 Jane, times when the defendant was in the room when Jane 19 undressed in front of Epstein, and she was sometimes in the 20 room when Epstein engaged in sex acts with Jane. The sexual 21 abuse, these horrifying massages occurred frequently. It 22 continued for years when Jane was 14, when Jane was 15, when 23 Jane was 16, it went on for years. 24 And the abuse was not limited to Palm Beach, Florida. 25 Both the defendant and Epstein encouraged Jane to travel with SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016144 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 35 of 106 39 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz them, and she did. She traveled with the defendant and Epstein to New York where she stayed at Epstein's Manhattan mansion. During those trips, Epstein sexually abused her just like he did in Florida. Ladies and gentlemen, Jane was not the only one. During the course of this trial, you will learn about multiple girls who were targeted by the defendant and Epstein for sexual abuse. You will learn about other girls who the defendant encouraged to massage Epstein, knowing that Epstein planned to engage in sex acts during those massages. For example, you will learn about a 16-year-old girl who traveled to Epstein's ranch in New Mexico and found herself alone with the defendant and Epstein. Once the girl was isolated, the defendant took steps to normalize sexual contact under the rouse of massage, preparing her to be sexually abused by Epstein. The defendant told the girl she was going to give her a massage, and once she got the girl on the massage table, the defendant started touching the girl's breasts. The girl was 16 years old. You will also learn about a 17-year-old girl the defendant spotted in a parking lot and recruited out of the blue. You'll hear that the defendant made her driver pull over so that she could approach that 17-year-old girl to recruit her to give Epstein massages. And you will learn about the way the defendant and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011700 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 35 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz them, and she did. She traveled with the defendant and Epstein to New York where she stayed at Epstein's Manhattan mansion. During those trips, Epstein sexually abused her just like he did in Florida. Ladies and gentlemen, Jane was not the only one. During the course of this trial, you will learn about multiple girls who were targeted by the defendant and Epstein for sexual abuse. You will learn about other girls who the defendant encouraged to massage Epstein, knowing that Epstein planned to engage in sex acts during those massages. For example, you will learn about a 16-year-old girl who traveled to Epstein's ranch in New Mexico and found herself alone with the defendant and Epstein. Once the girl was isolated, the defendant took steps to normalize sexual contact under the rouse of massage, preparing her to be sexually abused by Epstein. The defendant told the girl she was going to give her a massage, and once she got the girl on the massage table, the defendant started touching the girl's breasts. The girl was 16 years old. You will also learn about a 17-year-old girl the defendant spotted in a parking lot and recruited out of the blue. You'll hear that the defendant made her driver pull over so that she could approach that 17-year-old girl to recruit her to give Epstein massages. And you will learn about the way the defendant and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016145 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 36 of 106 LBTMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 Epstein's sexual abuse evolved over the course of a decade. 2 You will learn that in the 1990s, they used the cover of 3 mentoring young girls, of promising them scholarships and 4 opportunity, to introduce massage, inviting them on trips and 5 transporting them across state lines, and that you will learn 6 that they used these so called massages as a way to sexually 7 abuse the victims. 8 During that earlier phase, the defendant and Epstein 9 had to find each girl individually themselves, but by the early 10 2000s, the defendant and Epstein found an easier way to 11 maintain a continuous flow of girls to abuse. They were no 12 longer finding girls through the cover of scholarships and 13 opportunity. Instead, they devised a pyramid scheme of abuse, 14 a scheme that no longer required the defendant to personally 15 find young girls for Epstein. 16 So what did the defendant and Epstein do? They 17 encouraged girls to bring other girls. They asked the girls if 18 they had any young friends to bring over. And when a girl 19 brought someone new, she was rewarded with cash, extra cash on 20 top of the hundreds of dollars she got for giving Epstein a 21 sexualized massage. The defendant and Epstein handed hundred 22 dollar bills to poor teenage girls in exchange for them giving 23 Epstein so called massages. To be clear, those girls were not 24 professional masseuses - they were kids being sexually 25 exploited and abused. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011701 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 36 of 106 LBTCMAX2 40 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 Epstein's sexual abuse evolved over the course of a decade. 2 You will learn that in the 1990s, they used the cover of mentoring young girls, of promising them scholarships and opportunity, to introduce massage, inviting them on trips and transporting them across state lines, and that you will learn that they used these so called massages as a way to sexually abuse the victims. 3 4 5 6 7 8 During that earlier phase, the defendant and Epstein had to find each girl individually themselves, but by the early 2000s, the defendant and Epstein found an easier way to maintain a continuous flow of girls to abuse. They were no longer finding girls through the cover of scholarships and opportunity. Instead, they devised a pyramid scheme of abuse, a scheme that no longer required the defendant to personally find young girls for Epstein. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 So what did the defendant and Epstein do? They encouraged girls to bring other girls. They asked the girls if they had any young friends to bring over. And when a girl brought someone new, she was rewarded with cash, extra cash on top of the hundreds of dollars she got for giving Epstein a sexualized massage. The defendant and Epstein handed hundred dollar bills to poor teenage girls in exchange for them giving Epstein so called massages. To be clear, those girls were not professional masseuses - they were kids being sexually exploited and abused. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016146 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 37 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 Under this pyramid scheme of abuse, the defendant 2 could just call girls to schedule massage appointments and hand 3 them cash afterwards, overseeing the operation and normalizing 4 the abuse by showing these young girls that she, an older, 5 purportedly respectable woman, had no problem with the paid sex 6 acts that were taking place during these so called massages. 7 For a decade, the defendant played an essential role in this 8 scheme. She knew exactly what she was doing. She was 9 dangerous. She was setting young girls up to be molested by a 10 predator. 11 That's what we expect the evidence will show, that the 12 defendant enticed and groomed multiple young girls to engage in 13 sex acts with Jeffrey Epstein, that the defendant and Epstein 14 enticed some of those girls to travel to Epstein's homes in 15 different states, which the defendant knew would result in 16 sexual abuse. 17 As a result of these actions, the defendant is charged 18 in six counts. Four of the counts charge her with working with 19 Epstein to transport girls under the age of 17 across state 20 lines to be sexually abused. Two of the counts charge her with 21 crimes for sex trafficking of minors. Sex trafficking of 22 minors, as I expect Judge Nathan will instruct you, means 23 recruiting or enticing a girl under the age of 18 for sex acts 24 in exchange for money. 25 Now, how will we prove to you that the defendant is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011702 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 37 of 106 LBTCMAX2 41 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz Under this pyramid scheme of abuse, the defendant could just call girls to schedule massage appointments and hand them cash afterwards, overseeing the operation and normalizing the abuse by showing these young girls that she, an older, purportedly respectable woman, had no problem with the paid sex acts that were taking place during these so-called massages. For a decade, the defendant played an essential role in this scheme. She knew exactly what she was doing. She was dangerous. She was setting young girls up to be molested by a predator. That's what we expect the evidence will show, that the defendant enticed and groomed multiple young girls to engage in sex acts with Jeffrey Epstein, that the defendant and Epstein enticed some of those girls to travel to Epstein's homes in different states, which the defendant knew would result in sexual abuse. As a result of these actions, the defendant is charged in six counts. Four of the counts charge her with working with Epstein to transport girls under the age of 17 across state lines to be sexually abused. Two of the counts charge her with crimes for sex trafficking of minors. Sex trafficking of minors, as I expect Judge Nathan will instruct you, means recruiting or enticing a girl under the age of 18 for sex acts in exchange for money. Now, how will we prove to you that the defendant is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016147 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 38 of 106 42 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz guilty of these crimes? We're going to prove it to you in several different ways. I want to highlight just a few of those ways for you now. First, you will hear from the victims, including Jane herself. They will take that stand and describe the sexual abuse they suffered at the hands of the defendant and Epstein. They will tell you about the defendant's significant role in that sexual abuse, how the defendant helped put them at ease, how she talked about sexual topics with them, how the defendant was sometimes in the room for the sexual abuse, how the defendant sometimes touched their bodies, how the defendant encouraged some of them to travel with Epstein to his homes. These witnesses will be testifying about some of the most painful and private experiences of their childhood, experiences they couldn't talk about for years, experiences that forever changed their lives, experiences that scarred them. You will also hear that a fund to compensate girls who Epstein abused awarded some of these witnesses millions of dollars, but it will be obvious to you at this trial that these witnesses would have paid anything for this not to have happened to them. They would pay anything to have never met the defendant and Epstein. You'll also hear from people who knew some of the victims, who knew them not as the adults that you will see during the course of this trial, but as the kids they were when SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011703 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 38 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz guilty of these crimes? We're going to prove it to you in several different ways. I want to highlight just a few of those ways for you now. First, you will hear from the victims, including Jane herself. They will take that stand and describe the sexual abuse they suffered at the hands of the defendant and Epstein. They will tell you about the defendant's significant role in that sexual abuse, how the defendant helped put them at ease, how she talked about sexual topics with them, how the defendant was sometimes in the room for the sexual abuse, how the defendant sometimes touched their bodies, how the defendant encouraged some of them to travel with Epstein to his homes. These witnesses will be testifying about some of the most painful and private experiences of their childhood, experiences they couldn't talk about for years, experiences that forever changed their lives, experiences that scarred them. You will also hear that a fund to compensate girls who Epstein abused awarded some of these witnesses millions of dollars, but it will be obvious to you at this trial that these witnesses would have paid anything for this not to have happened to them. They would pay anything to have never met the defendant and Epstein. You'll also hear from people who knew some of the victims, who knew them not as the adults that you will see during the course of this trial, but as the kids they were when SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016148 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 39 of 106 43 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz the abuse happened. You'll hear from relatives from some of the victims. They will tell you about the victims spending time with the defendant and Epstein, travelling to meet the defendant and Epstein, and receiving phone calls from the defendant, all when those victims were between the ages of 14 and 17. You'll also hear from some of Epstein's staff. You'll hear from the pilots who flew Epstein and the defendant and some of the victims in Epstein's private planes. You'll also hear from some of the employees who worked at Epstein's Palm Beach residence. They will tell you what it was like to work for Epstein and the defendant. The rules the defendant imposed on staff, rules designed by the defendant to ensure a culture of silence. You'll also hear from law enforcement witnesses. You'll hear from law enforcement witnesses who participated in a search of Epstein's Palm Beach home in 2005 and a search of Epstein's New York mansion in 2019. You'll see photographs from those searches. You will see that Epstein lived in mansions filled with photographs of naked females, and you will learn that he had a massage room in each of those houses that was decorated with more nude photographs. You'll also see evidence recovered from the searches of Epstein's Palm Beach and New York residences, backing up the victims' accounts, like massage tables, a school girl outfit, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011704 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 39 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 the abuse happened. You'll hear from relatives from some of 2 the victims. They will tell you about the victims spending 3 time with the defendant and Epstein, travelling to meet the 4 defendant and Epstein, and receiving phone calls from the 5 defendant, all when those victims were between the ages of 14 6 and 17. 7 You'll also hear from some of Epstein's staff. You'll 8 hear from the pilots who flew Epstein and the defendant and 9 some of the victims in Epstein's private planes. You'll also 10 hear from some of the employees who worked at Epstein's Palm 11 Beach residence. They will tell you what it was like to work 12 for Epstein and the defendant. The rules the defendant imposed 13 on staff, rules designed by the defendant to ensure a culture 14 of silence. 15 You'll also hear from law enforcement witnesses. 16 You'll hear from law enforcement witnesses who participated in 17 a search of Epstein's Palm Beach home in 2005 and a search of 18 Epstein's New York mansion in 2019. You'll see photographs 19 from those searches. You will see that Epstein lived in 20 mansions filled with photographs of naked females, and you will 21 learn that he had a massage room in each of those houses that 22 was decorated with more nude photographs. 23 You'll also see evidence recovered from the searches 24 of Epstein's Palm Beach and New York residences, backing up the 25 victims' accounts, like massage tables, a school girl outfit, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016149 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 40 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz 1 and nude photographs. 2 Finally, you'll also see a variety of other types of 3 records that further back up the victims' testimony. To name 4 just three examples, you'll see flight logs of Epstein's 5 private planes, logs that include the names of some of the 6 defendant and Epstein's victims, confirming that the defendant 7 and Epstein flew on his planes with minor girls. You'll see 8 FedEx records confirming that Epstein sent a gift to one victim 9 when she was just 15 years old. And you'll see records 10 confirming that the defendant and Epstein were at the arts camp 11 the same summer as Jane when she was just 14 years old. 12 Taken together, all of this evidence will prove to you 13 that the defendant conspired with Jeffrey Epstein to entice 14 young teenage girls to be sexually abused. They were 15 exploiting kids. They were trafficking kids for sex. 16 You're going to see a lot of evidence and hear from a 17 lot of witnesses in this case. This evidence will come in 18 piece by piece, and it won't always come in perfect 19 chronological order, but by the end of this trial when you've 20 seen and heard all of the evidence, you will see how it fits 21 together. You will see how it proves that the defendant and 22 Epstein were dangerous predators who sexually exploited and 23 abused young girls for a decade. 24 At the end of this trial, we will speak to you again 25 to summarize the evidence, but between now and then, we're SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011705 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 40 of 106 44 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Pomerantz and nude photographs. Finally, you'll also see a variety of other types of records that further back up the victims' testimony. To name just three examples, you'll see flight logs of Epstein's private planes, logs that include the names of some of the defendant and Epstein's victims, confirming that the defendant and Epstein flew on his planes with minor girls. You'll see FedEx records confirming that Epstein sent a gift to one victim when she was just 15 years old. And you'll see records confirming that the defendant and Epstein were at the arts camp the same summer as Jane when she was just 14 years old. Taken together, all of this evidence will prove to you that the defendant conspired with Jeffrey Epstein to entice young teenage girls to be sexually abused. They were exploiting kids. They were trafficking kids for sex. You're going to see a lot of evidence and hear from a lot of witnesses in this case. This evidence will come in piece by piece, and it won't always come in perfect chronological order, but by the end of this trial when you've seen and heard all of the evidence, you will see how it fits together. You will see how it proves that the defendant and Epstein were dangerous predators who sexually exploited and abused young girls for a decade. At the end of this trial, we will speak to you again to summarize the evidence, but between now and then, we're SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016150 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 41 of 106 45 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim going to ask you to do three things: First, please pay close attention to the evidence; second, please follow Judge Nathan's instructions on the law; and third, use your common sense, the same common sense you use every day to make all sorts of decisions in your own lives. If you do those three things, you will reach the only verdict that is consistent with the evidence, the law, and your common sense, that Ghislaine Maxwell is guilty. THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Pomerantz. Members of the jury, we'll now hear opening statements on behalf of the defendant and we'll hear from Ms. Sternheim. MS. STERNHEIM: Ever since Eve was tempting Adam with the apple, women have been blamed for the bad behavior of men, and women are often villainized and punished more than the men ever are. The charges against Ghislaine Maxwell are for things that Jeffrey Epstein did, but she is not Jeffrey Epstein, she is not like Jeffrey Epstein, and she is not like any of the other men, powerful men, moguls, media giants who abuse women. Epstein is not on trial, but his name and his conduct, as you have already heard, will be mentioned throughout this trial. He's the proverbial elephant in the room. He is not visible, but he is consuming this entire courtroom and the overflow courtrooms that other members of the public are viewing. You will hear plenty of testimony, some of which the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011706 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 41 of 106 45 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim going to ask you to do three things: First, please pay close attention to the evidence; second, please follow Judge Nathan's instructions on the law; and third, use your common sense, the same common sense you use every day to make all sorts of decisions in your own lives. If you do those three things, you will reach the only verdict that is consistent with the evidence, the law, and your common sense, that Ghislaine Maxwell is guilty. THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Pomerantz. Members of the jury, we'll now hear opening statements on behalf of the defendant and we'll hear from Ms. Sternheim. MS. STERNHEIM: Ever since Eve was tempting Adam with the apple, women have been blamed for the bad behavior of men, and women are often villainized and punished more than the men ever are. The charges against Ghislaine Maxwell are for things that Jeffrey Epstein did, but she is not Jeffrey Epstein, she is not like Jeffrey Epstein, and she is not like any of the other men, powerful men, moguls, media giants who abuse women. Epstein is not on trial, but his name and his conduct, as you have already heard, will be mentioned throughout this trial. He's the proverbial elephant in the room. He is not visible, but he is consuming this entire courtroom and the overflow courtrooms that other members of the public are viewing. You will hear plenty of testimony, some of which the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016151 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 42 of 106 46 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim government has already previewed, which revolves around Epstein's conduct, not Ghislaine's. But you are not here to judge whether Epstein committed the crimes, you are not here to judge whether the government could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Epstein committed the crimes - you are here to determine whether the government can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Ghislaine Maxwell has committed the crimes charged. When all is said and done, the evidence will show that the government cannot because Ghislaine did not. Now, together with my colleagues - Christian Everdell, Laura Menninger, and Jeffrey Pagliuca - I stand before you proud to represent Ghislaine Maxwell. This case is about memory, manipulation, and money. As you will see, the accusations that you will hear from the mouths of four accusers - not like the hundreds that the government suggested you would hear from - you will hear from them and they will recount their memories, memories of a quarter century ago, memories that have been corrupted by things that have happened throughout the years, manipulated by a narcissistic man and self-interested civil lawyers, and a desire for a big jackpot of money. The government's proof, the government's story relies on the claims of four accusers, four who will say that Ghislaine prepared them or - to use a term that you will hear SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011707 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 42 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim government has already previewed, which revolves around Epstein's conduct, not Ghislaine's. But you are not here to judge whether Epstein committed the crimes, you are not here to judge whether the government could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Epstein committed the crimes - you are here to determine whether the government can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Ghislaine Maxwell has committed the crimes charged. When all is said and done, the evidence will show that the government cannot because Ghislaine did not. Now, together with my colleagues - Christian Everdell, Laura Menninger, and Jeffrey Pagliuca - I stand before you proud to represent Ghislaine Maxwell. This case is about memory, manipulation, and money. As you will see, the accusations that you will hear from the mouths of four accusers - not like the hundreds that the government suggested you would hear from - you will hear from them and they will recount their memories, memories of a quarter century ago, memories that have been corrupted by things that have happened throughout the years, manipulated by a narcissistic man and self-interested civil lawyers, and a desire for a big jackpot of money. The government's proof, the government's story relies on the claims of four accusers, four who will say that Ghislaine prepared them or - to use a term that you will hear SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016152 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 43 of 106 47 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim in this trial through expert testimony - groomed them to engage in acts with Epstein. Now, we're talking about events that took place 15 to over 25 years ago, and as we all know, memories fade over time, and in this case, you will learn that not only have memories faded, but they have been contaminated by outside information, constant media reports and other influences. Manipulation. Yes, Jeffrey Epstein manipulated the world around him and the people around him. He compartmentalized his life, showing only what he wanted to show to the people around him, including Ghislaine. You will hear that the accusers themselves were manipulated by those around them, especially civil attorneys who saw Epstein and Ghislaine as easy targets for lawsuits and, of course, money. As you heard, Epstein's estate set up a victim's compensation fund to pay accusers who claimed to be of a certain age and have had contact with Epstein. But those claims met the most minimal requirements, and certainly not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The fund did not challenge the accusers, did not check facts, didn't ask questions. Each accuser who applied to the fund - who will testify here - received millions of dollars from Epstein's estate, and it made it very easy for these women to include Ghislaine Maxwell when it really always was about Epstein. Now, Ghislaine Maxwell is on trial because of her SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011708 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 43 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 in this trial through expert testimony - groomed them to engage 2 in acts with Epstein. 3 Now, we're talking about events that took place 15 to 4 over 25 years ago, and as we all know, memories fade over time, 5 and in this case, you will learn that not only have memories 6 faded, but they have been contaminated by outside information, 7 constant media reports and other influences. 8 Manipulation. Yes, Jeffrey Epstein manipulated the 9 world around him and the people around him. He 10 compartmentalized his life, showing only what he wanted to show 11 to the people around him, including Ghislaine. You will hear 12 that the accusers themselves were manipulated by those around 13 them, especially civil attorneys who saw Epstein and Ghislaine 14 as easy targets for lawsuits and, of course, money. 15 As you heard, Epstein's estate set up a victim's 16 compensation fund to pay accusers who claimed to be of a 17 certain age and have had contact with Epstein. But those 18 claims met the most minimal requirements, and certainly not 19 proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The fund did not challenge 20 the accusers, did not check facts, didn't ask questions. Each 21 accuser who applied to the fund - who will testify here - 22 received millions of dollars from Epstein's estate, and it made 23 it very easy for these women to include Ghislaine Maxwell when 24 it really always was about Epstein. 25 Now, Ghislaine Maxwell is on trial because of her SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016153 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 44 of 106 48 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim association with Jeffrey Epstein. She is a scapegoat for a man who behaved badly. MS. POMERANTZ: Objection. THE COURT: As stated, overruled. MS. STERNHEIM: She is a target, a bullseye of anger for women who were or otherwise believed they were victimized by Epstein. Epstein's death left a gaping hole in the pursuit of justice for many of these women. MS. POMERANTZ: Objection. THE COURT: Overruled as stated. MS. STERNHEIM: Ghislaine is on trial here, and you heard about the conduct of Jeffrey Epstein. She is filling that hole and filling an empty chair. She is a brand name, she is a lightning rod, she is a convenient stand-in for the man who -- MS. POMERANTZ: Objection. THE COURT: Let me speak to counsel, please. (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011709 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 44 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 association with Jeffrey Epstein. She is a scapegoat for a man 2 who behaved badly. 3 MS. POMERANTZ: Objection. 4 THE COURT: As stated, overruled. 5 MS. STERNHEIM: She is a target, a bullseye of anger 6 for women who were or otherwise believed they were victimized 7 by Epstein. Epstein's death left a gaping hole in the pursuit 8 of justice for many of these women. 9 MS. POMERANTZ: Objection. 10 THE COURT: Overruled as stated. 11 MS. STERNHEIM: Ghislaine is on trial here, and you 12 heard about the conduct of Jeffrey Epstein. She is filling 13 that hole and filling an empty chair. She is a brand name, she 14 is a lightning rod, she is a convenient stand-in for the man 15 who -- 16 MS. POMERANTZ: Objection. 17 THE COURT: Let me speak to counsel, please. 18 (Continued on next page) 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016154 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 45 of 106 49 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim (At the sidebar) THE COURT: This is not sealed. It's out of the earshot of the jury. State your objection. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, this is in violation of pretrial ruling made by the Court, including the defense, from arguing that the government was targeting this defendant -- THE COURT: And they may not do that. What they can do is argue that, for the witnesses, she's a scapegoat or a stand-in, and I think that's where we are in the line. I think the last statement comes closest because you put it in context of justice. The other ones, that's why I said as stated, were on the line about credibility of these witnesses and motives of witnesses and that, I think you agree, is permissible. MS. COMEY: That is permissible, your Honor. But the reference to an empty chair is clearly a reference to this case and the prosecution -- THE COURT: I won't allow the line to be crossed into where I ruled on, which is that you can't talk about motivations of the prosecution. The government is not on trial. To the extent that you want to argue motivation of the witnesses to not tell the truth or credibility with respect to them, you may do that, but don't play with the line. MS. STERNHEIM: I will not. I will not play with the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 45 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 (At the sidebar) 2 THE COURT: This is not sealed. It's out of the 3 earshot of the jury. 4 State your objection. 5 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, this is in violation of 6 pretrial ruling made by the Court, including the defense, from 7 arguing that the government was targeting this defendant -- 8 THE COURT: And they may not do that. What they can 9 do is argue that, for the witnesses, she's a scapegoat or a 10 stand-in, and I think that's where we are in the line. I think 11 the last statement comes closest because you put it in context 12 of justice. The other ones, that's why I said as stated, were 13 on the line about credibility of these witnesses and motives of 14 witnesses and that, I think you agree, is permissible. 15 MS. COMEY: That is permissible, your Honor. But the 16 reference to an empty chair is clearly a reference to this case 17 and the prosecution -- 18 THE COURT: I won't allow the line to be crossed into 19 where I ruled on, which is that you can't talk about 20 motivations of the prosecution. The government is not on 21 trial. 22 To the extent that you want to argue motivation of the 23 witnesses to not tell the truth or credibility with respect to 24 them, you may do that, but don't play with the line. 25 MS. STERNHEIM: I will not. I will not play with the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 46 of 106 LBTMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 line. I will make clear that I'm talking about the witnesses. 2 THE COURT: Okay? 3 MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 4 (Continued on next page) ... 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011711 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 46 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 line. I will make clear that I'm talking about the witnesses. 2 THE COURT: Okay? 3 MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 4 (Continued on next page) ... 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016156 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 47 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 (In open court) 2 MS. STERNHEIM: Four women will come into this courtroom and they will point a finger at Ghislaine Maxwell, but what they say and the evidence that you will see is not going to support these charges beyond a reasonable doubt. 3 You've heard many negative things about Ghislaine Maxwell, and the evidence is going to show many exceptional things about Ghislaine Maxwell - well educated, well traveled, a graduate of Oxford. She socialized with extraordinary people, she can pilot a helicopter, she speaks numerous languages, and she has worked her entire adult life. She is being pegged as the rich girl, the socialite. But privileged background, comfortable lifestyle, status - they may be things that easily check the wrong box, but they are not crimes and nor should they factor negatively into your consideration of the evidence because, as you may recall, during jury selection, you all agreed and you all said that you would not be biased by affluence or opulence, and your word is your bond. 4 Now, in the '90s, Ghislaine met Epstein. As you will hear, he was a successful financier, a philanthropist, a patron of the arts and sciences, and a supporter of educational pursuit and artistic talent. He was a bright, fascinating man with wide ranging interests, and he had many positive traits, attractiveness, charisma, intelligence, status, charm. He gave generously and he shared his lifestyle with others. He SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011712 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 47 of 106 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 51 1 (In open court) 2 MS. STERNHEIM: Four women will come into this 3 courtroom and they will point a finger at Ghislaine Maxwell, 4 but what they say and the evidence that you will see is not 5 going to support these charges beyond a reasonable doubt. 6 You've heard many negative things about Ghislaine 7 Maxwell, and the evidence is going to show many exceptional 8 things about Ghislaine Maxwell - well educated, well traveled, 9 a graduate of Oxford. She socialized with extraordinary 10 people, she can pilot a helicopter, she speaks numerous 11 languages, and she has worked her entire adult life. She is 12 being pegged as the rich girl, the socialite. But privileged 13 background, comfortable lifestyle, status - they may be things 14 that easily check the wrong box, but they are not crimes and 15 nor should they factor negatively into your consideration of 16 the evidence because, as you may recall, during jury selection, 17 you all agreed and you all said that you would not be biased by 18 affluence or opulence, and your word is your bond. 19 Now, in the '90s, Ghislaine met Epstein. As you will 20 hear, he was a successful financier, a philanthropist, a patron 21 of the arts and sciences, and a supporter of educational 22 pursuit and artistic talent. He was a bright, fascinating man 23 with wide ranging interests, and he had many positive traits, 24 attractiveness, charisma, intelligence, status, charm. He gave 25 generously and he shared his lifestyle with others. He SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016157 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 48 of 106 52 LBTCMAX2 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 radiated what's called a halo effect. He attracted people 2 because of his charisma and his charm, but he also 3 compartmentalized what he would disclose to people about his 4 life. 5 Now, you heard that he had a relationship with 6 Ghislaine, they became friends, became companions, but she 7 became his employee. She had the task, a time-consuming task 8 of developing and administering his real estate portfolio, the 9 multiple properties that each operated like small boutique 10 hotels. They were luxurious, they were vacation spots, and 11 like many New Yorkers, Epstein wintered and spent weekends in 12 Palm Beach. But unlike many New Yorkers, he did not summer in 13 the Hamptons he went to his ranch in Santa Fe, and he also went 14 to his home in the Virgin Islands. 15 You heard about his house having staff and house 16 managers because the houses required cleaning and maintenance, 17 housekeeping, gardening, all kinds of upkeep, purchase of 18 supplies, purchases of foods and sundries and meal preparation. 19 You will hear that Ghislaine visited those properties 20 with and without Epstein, and you will hear that Epstein spent 21 time with other women and traveled without Ghislaine. 22 (Continued on next page) 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011713 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 48 of 106 LBTCMAX2 52 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 radiated what's called a halo effect. He attracted people 2 because of his charisma and his charm, but he also 3 compartmentalized what he would disclose to people about his 4 life. 5 Now, you heard that he had a relationship with 6 Ghislaine, they became friends, became companions, but she 7 became his employee. She had the task, a time-consuming task 8 of developing and administering his real estate portfolio, the 9 multiple properties that each operated like small boutique 10 hotels. They were luxurious, they were vacation spots, and 11 like many New Yorkers, Epstein wintered and spent weekends in 12 Palm Beach. But unlike many New Yorkers, he did not summer in 13 the Hamptons he went to his ranch in Santa Fe, and he also went 14 to his home in the Virgin Islands. 15 You heard about his house having staff and house 16 managers because the houses required cleaning and maintenance, 17 housekeeping, gardening, all kinds of upkeep, purchase of 18 supplies, purchases of foods and sundries and meal preparation. 19 You will hear that Ghislaine visited those properties 20 with and without Epstein, and you will hear that Epstein spent 21 time with other women and traveled without Ghislaine. 22 (Continued on next page) 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016158 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 49 of 106 53 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim MS. STERNHEIM: Now, you heard about the private jets. Enviable as they are, in many ways they served like a Hampton Jitney in the air. They were used as commuter jets for Epstein to travel with family and friends, guy friends, past, present, and future girlfriends, and an array of other very, very interesting people, academics, politicians, scientists, musicians, celebrities, even a former astronaut who became a senator. And there were families on the flights and children on the flights, high-style commuting. But it was a way of getting back and forth from his properties and taking others along for the ride at times, for them to go to their own homes or to other destinations that were on the way. You'll also hear that Epstein worked out of his office in New York, as well as out of his homes; and that Ghislaine had worked out of his New York office, but then out of her own office in her own residence. There came a time where the companionship part of their relationship ended, but she still remained an employee. She moved on with her life, but she still worked for Epstein. Now, I would love to be able to tell you a progressive once-upon-a-time narration, but the evidence is not conducive for that. I would also like to be standing right in front of you, but these times also are not conducive for that. What you are going to see and what you are going to hear basically center around four women. They are going to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011714 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 49 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 MS. STERNHEIM: Now, you heard about the private jets. 2 Enviable as they are, in many ways they served like a Hampton Jitney in the air. They were used as commuter jets for Epstein to travel with family and friends, guy friends, past, present, 3 and future girlfriends, and an array of other very, very interesting people, academics, politicians, scientists, 4 musicians, celebrities, even a former astronaut who became a senator. And there were families on the flights and children on the flights, high-style commuting. But it was a way of getting back and forth from his properties and taking others along for the ride at times, for them to go to their own homes or to other destinations that were on the way. 5 You'll also hear that Epstein worked out of his office in New York, as well as out of his homes; and that Ghislaine had worked out of his New York office, but then out of her own office in her own residence. There came a time where the companionship part of their relationship ended, but she still remained an employee. She moved on with her life, but she still worked for Epstein. 6 Now, I would love to be able to tell you a progressive once-upon-a-time narration, but the evidence is not conducive for that. I would also like to be standing right in front of you, but these times also are not conducive for that. 7 What you are going to see and what you are going to hear basically center around four women. They are going to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016159 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 50 of 106 54 LBTVMAX3 tell four different stories, they are four completely different people, and they are going to recount things that they claim happened to them decades and decades ago. They are not going to be able to pinpoint dates; they are going to tell stories that have changed over time and grown over time, stories that they have told for the first time after Epstein died. And Ghislaine has been inserted in those stories as they reframed their stories for a payday. Now, they will come in here and they will point their finger at Ghislaine Maxwell. There is nobody else to point the finger at this trial. And I ask you to consider, when you hear their testimony, those core themes that I mentioned before: Memory, manipulation, and money. Now, the four women who will come here -- and, as you heard, they are permitted to have pseudonyms or not have their whole names used -- are Jane, Annie, Kate, and Carolyn. They don't have contemporaneous records, they don't have notes of the things they are going to say. Unlike you, as Judge Nathan said, you could keep notes to aid your recollection. They don't have those notes. Instead, they come before you and tell their stories purely from memory. Now, memory, as you will hear, changes. It is not like we take a picture and it is exactly the same as what happened. You are going to hear expert testimony about how memories can be contaminated over time; how false memories can SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011715 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 50 of 106 54 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim tell four different stories, they are four completely different people, and they are going to recount things that they claim happened to them decades and decades ago. They are not going to be able to pinpoint dates; they are going to tell stories that have changed over time and grown over time, stories that they have told for the first time after Epstein died. And Ghislaine has been inserted in those stories as they reframed their stories for a payday. Now, they will come in here and they will point their finger at Ghislaine Maxwell. There is nobody else to point the finger at this trial. And I ask you to consider, when you hear their testimony, those core themes that I mentioned before: Memory, manipulation, and money. Now, the four women who will come here -- and, as you heard, they are permitted to have pseudonyms or not have their whole names used -- are Jane, Annie, Kate, and Carolyn. They don't have contemporaneous records, they don't have notes of the things they are going to say. Unlike you, as Judge Nathan said, you could keep notes to aid your recollection. They don't have those notes. Instead, they come before you and tell their stories purely from memory. Now, memory, as you will hear, changes. It is not like we take a picture and it is exactly the same as what happened. You are going to hear expert testimony about how memories can be contaminated over time; how false memories can SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016160 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 51 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim be created through suggestive activities, information, and influence; how people can testify seemingly convincingly about false memories that they believe to be true, even when they are not. It may seem like their personal truth, but, in fact, it is not the truth. You are going to hear stories from women who have absorbed many things, things they have heard and read, saw and said to others. And as the evidence will show and the expert testimony will show, these things can lead to memories that are untrustworthy, uncorroborated, and unreliable. Now, keep in mind the amount of time that has elapsed, the many versions of events that have been spun in the media, through talk, etc., and the incentive of personal monetary gain. All of these impact so-called memories into a retrospective interpretation that will be offered during this trial. Now, the four women that will testify were not initially interviewed by investigators experienced in the training of evaluating claims of sexual abuse. MS. COMEY: Objection. THE COURT: Sustained. The jury will disregard the last comment of Ms. Sternheim. MS. STERNHEIM: You are going to decide, when you hear these witnesses, if you find them reliable, credible, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011716 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 51 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 be created through suggestive activities, information, and 2 influence; how people can testify seemingly convincingly about 3 false memories that they believe to be true, even when they are 4 not. It may seem like their personal truth, but, in fact, it 5 is not the truth. 6 You are going to hear stories from women who have 7 absorbed many things, things they have heard and read, saw and 8 said to others. And as the evidence will show and the expert 9 testimony will show, these things can lead to memories that are 10 untrustworthy, uncorroborated, and unreliable. 11 Now, keep in mind the amount of time that has elapsed, 12 the many versions of events that have been spun in the media, 13 through talk, etc., and the incentive of personal monetary 14 gain. All of these impact so-called memories into a 15 retrospective interpretation that will be offered during this 16 trial. 17 Now, the four women that will testify were not 18 initially interviewed by investigators experienced in the 19 training of evaluating claims of sexual abuse. 20 MS. COMEY: Objection. 21 THE COURT: Sustained. 22 The jury will disregard the last comment of 23 Ms. Sternheim. 24 MS. STERNHEIM: You are going to decide, when you hear 25 these witnesses, if you find them reliable, credible, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 52 of 106 56 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 plausible. You are going to see, based on the evidence and, importantly, the lack of evidence, that they do not support the charges in this indictment, certainly not beyond a reasonable doubt. There will be no eyewitnesses to their accounts, even when they claim there were all these other people involved in the activities that the government has alleged. There will not be documentation, even that which still exists some 25 years later, that is going to corroborate their testimony. 2 Now, I said before that Epstein was a manipulator. He had the money and the means to create an exceptional world: Beautiful homes, beautiful surroundings, beautiful people. But he also was a mysterious man without attachment. He had no wife, he had no children, he had no boss; yet he attracted all these rich, powerful, famous people before and after his fall from grace back in around 2008. In many regards, he was like a 21st century James Bond. His mystery has stirred interest and his accusers have shaken the money tree and millions of dollars have fallen their way. 3 But Epstein wasn't the only one who manipulated, even though he was a man who, as I said, compartmentalized, had eccentricities, very specific requirements about his diet, his daily physical regime, he demanded perfection, he demanded solitude and silence; but he also surrounded himself with people and traveled at times with an entourage. Yet as open as that may seem, he kept parts of his life locked from others. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011717 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 52 of 106 56 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 plausible. You are going to see, based on the evidence and, importantly, the lack of evidence, that they do not support the charges in this indictment, certainly not beyond a reasonable doubt. There will be no eyewitnesses to their accounts, even when they claim there were all these other people involved in the activities that the government has alleged. There will not be documentation, even that which still exists some 25 years later, that is going to corroborate their testimony. 2 Now, I said before that Epstein was a manipulator. He had the money and the means to create an exceptional world: Beautiful homes, beautiful surroundings, beautiful people. But he also was a mysterious man without attachment. He had no wife, he had no children, he had no boss; yet he attracted all these rich, powerful, famous people before and after his fall from grace back in around 2008. In many regards, he was like a 21st century James Bond. His mystery has stirred interest and his accusers have shaken the money tree and millions of dollars have fallen their way. 3 But Epstein wasn't the only one who manipulated, even though he was a man who, as I said, compartmentalized, had eccentricities, very specific requirements about his diet, his daily physical regime, he demanded perfection, he demanded solitude and silence; but he also surrounded himself with people and traveled at times with an entourage. Yet as open as that may seem, he kept parts of his life locked from others. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016162 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 53 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim But he isn't the only source of manipulation in this case. Lawyers, media, money, have impacted the memories that you will hear about. You will learn that these four women are all represented by civil lawyers who targeted clients, primed their clients, cultivated their stories, honed their accusations. MS. COMEY: Objection. THE COURT: Just a moment. I need to hear the grounds. (At sidebar) MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. Our objection is, as the Court may recall, we moved to preclude any suggestion before this jury the credibility of lawyers was at issue in this case. In particular, as the Court might recall, last week we raised the issue that defense counsel had served subpoenas on the lawyers for these witnesses. In our view, we can't imagine how it can be proper to bring this out before this jury or how this evidence that defense counsel is proffering could possibly come in evidence at this trial. What Ms. Sternheim has just proffered is about a conversation with lawyers and their clients, which can't possibly come before this jury at this trial; it would be inappropriate. Certainly the victims themselves couldn't be cross-examined about their contacts with their attorneys, and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011718 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 53 of 106 57 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim But he isn't the only source of manipulation in this case. Lawyers, media, money, have impacted the memories that you will hear about. You will learn that these four women are all represented by civil lawyers who targeted clients, primed their clients, cultivated their stories, honed their accusations. MS. COMEY: Objection. THE COURT: Just a moment. I need to hear the grounds. (At sidebar) MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. Our objection is, as the Court may recall, we moved to preclude any suggestion before this jury the credibility of lawyers was at issue in this case. In particular, as the Court might recall, last week we raised the issue that defense counsel had served subpoenas on the lawyers for these witnesses. In our view, we can't imagine how it can be proper to bring this out before this jury or how this evidence that defense counsel is proffering could possibly come in evidence at this trial. What Ms. Sternheim has just proffered is about a conversation with lawyers and their clients, which can't possibly come before this jury at this trial; it would be inappropriate. Certainly the victims themselves couldn't be cross-examined about their contacts with their attorneys, and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016163 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 54 of 106 58 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim certainly their attorneys couldn't be called as witnesses to talk about that. Beyond that, I can't imagine a good-faith basis to proffer that evidence to come before this jury about that. MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, the government well knows that the lawyers for these people sat in their offices through proffer sessions. If nothing else, they are witnesses to what went on in that room. They also separately were in communication with the government providing information to the government; and the government, in turn, was helping them build their cases, their civil cases, and their cases for settlement. So there is a good-faith basis to raise these things. THE COURT: I had said clearly, since it's unclear, how you can call lawyers for witnesses in this case as witnesses themselves; that you wouldn't do so unless you briefed it specifically. You have not done that. So you may not refer to that testimony that you somehow anticipate getting in, although I don't know how you will in your opening. You may not. I was very clear that before that would happen, you would have to brief it. I haven't seen any briefing, so you may not reference it. MS. STERNHEIM: But, Judge, may I just say there's no dispute that if a witness to a proffer has information that may be a conflict with the testimony here, there is no privilege to that. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011719 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 54 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 certainly their attorneys couldn't be called as witnesses to 2 talk about that. Beyond that, I can't imagine a good-faith 3 basis to proffer that evidence to come before this jury about 4 that. 5 MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, the government well knows that 6 the lawyers for these people sat in their offices through 7 proffer sessions. If nothing else, they are witnesses to what 8 went on in that room. They also separately were in 9 communication with the government providing information to the 10 government; and the government, in turn, was helping them build 11 their cases, their civil cases, and their cases for settlement. 12 So there is a good-faith basis to raise these things. 13 THE COURT: I had said clearly, since it's unclear, 14 how you can call lawyers for witnesses in this case as 15 witnesses themselves; that you wouldn't do so unless you 16 briefed it specifically. You have not done that. So you may 17 not refer to that testimony that you somehow anticipate getting 18 in, although I don't know how you will in your opening. You 19 may not. I was very clear that before that would happen, you 20 would have to brief it. I haven't seen any briefing, so you 21 may not reference it. 22 MS. STERNHEIM: But, Judge, may I just say there's no 23 dispute that if a witness to a proffer has information that may 24 be a conflict with the testimony here, there is no privilege to 25 that. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 55 of 106 59 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 THE COURT: So tell me what you're going to do. 2 You're going to call -- so a witness will testify, and then you're going to call that witness's attorney. What is it that you're going to do? What evidence are you going to -- 5 MR. PAGLIUCA: The lawyers are in proffers, your honor, and the witness is in the proffer. The witness can talk about what the lawyer said to the government in the proffer. The lawyers have emails to the government lawyers about what their clients will or won't say. There's an email from Mr. Scarola to the government in which Mr. Scarola suggests ten topics for the interview with Carolyn. Those are not privileged conversations. 13 THE COURT: Sorry. Just to clarify, you're saying this is not what you just said, the cultivating of the stories by these lawyers; you do not intend to get that by calling any of these lawyers as witnesses. 17 MR. PAGLIUCA: Not unless we brief it and you give us permission to do that. 19 THE COURT: But instead, it's based on communications between the lawyers and the government? 21 MR. PAGLIUCA: Correct. 22 THE COURT: And email. 23 MR. PAGLIUCA: And in proffers. 24 THE COURT: And in proffers in which the government was present. 25 was present. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 55 of 106 59 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 THE COURT: So tell me what you're going to do. 2 You're going to call -- so a witness will testify, and then 3 you're going to call that witness's attorney. What is it that 4 you're going to do? What evidence are you going to -- 5 MR. PAGLIUCA: The lawyers are in proffers, your 6 Honor, and the witness is in the proffer. The witness can talk 7 about what the lawyer said to the government in the proffer. 8 The lawyers have emails to the government lawyers about what 9 their clients will or won't say. There's an email from 10 Mr. Scarola to the government in which Mr. Scarola suggests ten 11 topics for the interview with Carolyn. Those are not 12 privileged conversations. 13 THE COURT: Sorry. Just to clarify, you're saying 14 this is not what you just said, the cultivating of the stories 15 by these lawyers; you do not intend to get that by calling any 16 of these lawyers as witnesses. 17 MR. PAGLIUCA: Not unless we brief it and you give us 18 permission to do that. 19 THE COURT: But instead, it's based on communications 20 between the lawyers and the government? 21 MR. PAGLIUCA: Correct. 22 THE COURT: And email. 23 MR. PAGLIUCA: And in proffers. 24 THE COURT: And in proffers in which the government 25 was present. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 56 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 MR. PAGLIUCA: Correct. 2 MS. MOE: Your Honor, what Ms. Sternheim said in the opening was that the jury would learn that these women had been manipulated by their attorneys which cultivated their stories. 3 The factual proffer about the basis for that is the lawyers were sitting in the room while they interviewed them. There is no connection between what's been proffered to this jury and what we are hearing now from defense counsel. The fact that there is an email between a lawyer and a prosecutor suggesting topics about an interview is a separate matter, but certainly wouldn't support the argument that they themselves had manipulated their clients and cultivated the stories. That is an entirely separate matter, your Honor. 4 THE COURT: I think the inference is available from -- cultivating, so I'm going to allow that. It's unclear to me what evidence will go to it, but the proffer now is that it's not based on anticipated testimony to be elicited from the attorneys, but it's based on nonprivileged communications between the attorneys and the government. And so beyond that, I'm going to let the argument be made, unless the government's position is there is no evidence available from which the inference of manipulation by the attorneys could be made. 5 MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. 6 The only evidence that defense counsel has proffered is an email between an attorney and a prosecutor suggesting SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 56 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 MR. PAGLIUCA: Correct. 2 MS. MOE: Your Honor, what Ms. Sternheim said in the 3 opening was that the jury would learn that these women had been 4 manipulated by their attorneys which cultivated their stories. 5 The factual proffer about the basis for that is the lawyers 6 were sitting in the room while they interviewed them. There is 7 no connection between what's been proffered to this jury and 8 what we are hearing now from defense counsel. The fact that 9 there is an email between a lawyer and a prosecutor suggesting 10 topics about an interview is a separate matter, but certainly 11 wouldn't support the argument that they themselves had 12 manipulated their clients and cultivated the stories. That is 13 an entirely separate matter, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: I think the inference is available from -- 15 cultivating, so I'm going to allow that. It's unclear to me 16 what evidence will go to it, but the proffer now is that it's 17 not based on anticipated testimony to be elicited from the 18 attorneys, but it's based on nonprivileged communications 19 between the attorneys and the government. And so beyond that, 20 I'm going to let the argument be made, unless the government's 21 position is there is no evidence available from which the 22 inference of manipulation by the attorneys could be made. 23 MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. 24 The only evidence that defense counsel has proffered 25 is an email between an attorney and a prosecutor suggesting SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016166 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 57 of 106 61 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim topics to ask the client about. That certainly couldn't be a good-faith basis to suggest to this jury that there will be evidence before them at this trial; that these were more manipulated by their attorneys who cultivated their specific stories told to the government. We think that's inappropriate, your Honor. THE COURT: I'm going to overrule it at the opening stage. I did not preclude the line of argumentation; I wasn't asked to preclude the line of argumentation. You raised the prospect -- you did certainly and I appreciate it, raise the prospect related to a subpoena of a witness's attorney, which I agree with the government is entirely unclear to me how that would be able -- but if the proffers that it's based on existing nonprivileged information from which the jury could infer that these attorneys structured in some way the questions that were asked, I think the line is I don't think you have any basis to say that the attorneys told the witnesses what to say. What evidence are you going to put in that shows the attorneys told the witnesses what to say? MR. PAGLIUCA: Well, so we back up a little bit, your Honor. We have in 2008 -- I'll use Carolyn as the example -- answers to interrogatories that are detailed that do not include Ms. Maxwell; deposition testimony that is detailed but does not include Ms. Maxwell; a 91-page complaint detailed, but does not include Ms. Maxwell. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011722 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 57 of 106 LBTVMAX3 61 Opening - Ms. Sternheim topics to ask the client about. That certainly couldn't be a good-faith basis to suggest to this jury that there will be evidence before them at this trial; that these were more manipulated by their attorneys who cultivated their specific stories told to the government. We think that's inappropriate, your Honor. THE COURT: I'm going to overrule it at the opening stage. I did not preclude the line of argumentation; I wasn't asked to preclude the line of argumentation. You raised the prospect -- you did certainly and I appreciate it, raise the prospect related to a subpoena of a witness's attorney, which I agree with the government is entirely unclear to me how that would be able -- but if the proffers that it's based on existing nonprivileged information from which the jury could infer that these attorneys structured in some way the questions that were asked, I think the line is I don't think you have any basis to say that the attorneys told the witnesses what to say. What evidence are you going to put in that shows the attorneys told the witnesses what to say? MR. PAGLIUCA: Well, so we back up a little bit, your Honor. We have in 2008 -- I'll use Carolyn as the example -- answers to interrogatories that are detailed that do not include Ms. Maxwell; deposition testimony that is detailed but does not include Ms. Maxwell; a 91-page complaint detailed, but does not include Ms. Maxwell. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016167 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 58 of 106 62 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim It is only after years and after the fund is open that we then have this witness coming forward in conjunction with this email that I'm talking about that we've referenced in papers to the Court. So, for example, Mr. Scarola, who is the lawyer on this topic, wrote all the answers to interrogatories and were signed by the client. Then we fast forward, and we have all this information that's being provided in 2020 which is not present in 2008. First of all, all the answers to interrogatories are not privileged. The communications in the complaint are not privileged. The lack of information about our client in that complaint can be inferred that after that is when all this comes up, because we are seeking money from the victim compensation fund and we are using the government as part and parcel of that to buttress our claim to the fund. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, as an initial matter, it's not factually accurate that the deposition is -- THE COURT: Okay. So these are arguments you're going to make to the jury. It's not -- the contention is that the story has changed and what happened in between was the involvement of civil lawyers. I have no idea what the evidence exactly will show with that, and it sounds like there are going to be arguments to be made on both sides, but that's not based on privileged testimony. And I have a proffer that the story has changed over time and what intervened between civil SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011723 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 58 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 It is only after years and after the fund is open that 2 we then have this witness coming forward in conjunction with 3 this email that I'm talking about that we've referenced in 4 papers to the Court. So, for example, Mr. Scarola, who is the 5 lawyer on this topic, wrote all the answers to interrogatories 6 and were signed by the client. Then we fast forward, and we 7 have all this information that's being provided in 2020 which 8 is not present in 2008. 9 First of all, all the answers to interrogatories are 10 not privileged. The communications in the complaint are not 11 privileged. The lack of information about our client in that 12 complaint can be inferred that after that is when all this 13 comes up, because we are seeking money from the victim 14 compensation fund and we are using the government as part and 15 parcel of that to buttress our claim to the fund. 16 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, as an initial matter, it's not 17 factually accurate that the deposition is -- 18 THE COURT: Okay. So these are arguments you're going 19 to make to the jury. It's not -- the contention is that the 20 story has changed and what happened in between was the 21 involvement of civil lawyers. I have no idea what the evidence 22 exactly will show with that, and it sounds like there are going 23 to be arguments to be made on both sides, but that's not based 24 on privileged testimony. And I have a proffer that the story 25 has changed over time and what intervened between civil SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016168 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 59 of 106 63 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim lawyers. They are allowed to make that inference argument to the jury. Thank you. (In open court) THE COURT: Ms. Sternheim, you may continue. MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. In bringing this case against Ms. Maxwell, the government has reached back almost a quarter of a century and they are looking through a rearview mirror with 20/20 vision, which you will hear is hindsight bias. And there will be experts who will explain that to you, what that means, how you look at something later and it has a different meaning. What we have here is lawful conduct that is going to be labeled grooming; it has been labeled grooming by the government, asking someone what they like to do, whether they like a movie, whether they like going shopping. The government wants you to put a sinister subjective motive in Ghislaine where the evidence will show none existed. Now, you heard about the fund, and that's where money comes in. Now, for individuals to collect under the Epstein Victim Compensation Fund, they have to submit a claim. And their claim is enhanced if they cooperate with the government. And the witnesses here have, by speaking with the government, testifying for the government, they have enhanced their claims. And each of the witnesses who will testify here have gotten money, a lot of money, from the Epstein fund. And part of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011724 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 59 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 lawyers. They are allowed to make that inference argument to 2 the jury. Thank you. 3 (In open court) 4 THE COURT: Ms. Sternheim, you may continue. 5 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 6 In bringing this case against Ms. Maxwell, the 7 government has reached back almost a quarter of a century and 8 they are looking through a rearview mirror with 20/20 vision, 9 which you will hear is hindsight bias. And there will be 10 experts who will explain that to you, what that means, how you 11 look at something later and it has a different meaning. 12 What we have here is lawful conduct that is going to 13 be labeled grooming; it has been labeled grooming by the 14 government, asking someone what they like to do, whether they 15 like a movie, whether they like going shopping. The government 16 wants you to put a sinister subjective motive in Ghislaine 17 where the evidence will show none existed. 18 Now, you heard about the fund, and that's where money 19 comes in. Now, for individuals to collect under the Epstein 20 Victim Compensation Fund, they have to submit a claim. And 21 their claim is enhanced if they cooperate with the government. 22 And the witnesses here have, by speaking with the government, 23 testifying for the government, they have enhanced their claims. 24 And each of the witnesses who will testify here have gotten 25 money, a lot of money, from the Epstein fund. And part of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016169 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 60 of 106 64 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 fund is making a claim against Epstein or others of his employees. 3 Now, the fund, administered by some of the same folks that administered the September 11th compensation fund, is different in this regard: 9/11, there was hard proof of what happened to victims. Here, it is based on the memories which we think the evidence will show is unreliable and suspect, 8 memories that will be the subject of this trial. But the claims that were made to the fund, as I said before, were not contested and they were not put before you, a jury, to decide whether they are credible. 12 Let's talk about those four accusers. As I said before, it's Jane, Annie, Kate, and Carolyn. 14 Here's what we expect the evidence is going to show about Jane: Yes, she was and is a talented musician and a singer from a musical family. And Epstein, a patron of the arts and a supporter of young talent, sponsored musicians and artists and actresses and others, and he offered to become her benefactor. He paid for her school, he paid for her vocal lessons, he paid or at least cosigned for a Wall Street apartment that Jane lived in with her mother and her brothers while she went to a prestigious professional school in New York City. 24 Jane and two of her brothers, the ones closest in age -- she has three older siblings from her mother's first SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011725 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 60 of 106 64 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 fund is making a claim against Epstein or others of his employees. 3 Now, the fund, administered by some of the same folks that administered the September 11th compensation fund, is different in this regard: 9/11, there was hard proof of what happened to victims. Here, it is based on the memories which we think the evidence will show is unreliable and suspect, 8 memories that will be the subject of this trial. But the claims that were made to the fund, as I said before, were not contested and they were not put before you, a jury, to decide whether they are credible. 12 Let's talk about those four accusers. As I said before, it's Jane, Annie, Kate, and Carolyn. 14 Here's what we expect the evidence is going to show about Jane: Yes, she was and is a talented musician and a singer from a musical family. And Epstein, a patron of the arts and a supporter of young talent, sponsored musicians and artists and actresses and others, and he offered to become her benefactor. He paid for her school, he paid for her vocal lessons, he paid or at least cosigned for a Wall Street apartment that Jane lived in with her mother and her brothers while she went to a prestigious professional school in New York City. 24 Jane and two of her brothers, the ones closest in age -- she has three older siblings from her mother's first SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016170 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 61 of 106 65 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim marriage -- she and the two brothers that she shares both a mother and a father, attended professional high schools and performed in Florida, like a von Trapp trio. And in the summers, they all attended the prestigious Interlochen summer program where Jeffrey Epstein was a sponsor. He sponsored the building of a handicap-accessible lodge, he sponsored scholarships for talented youth, he sponsored many people who went through that program, as well as people who went to other programs and other schools. Now, you will learn that Jane was in a beauty pageant, singing competitions, including in Italy, she modeled, she performed in commercials, she sang, she was on Broadway shows that were in the local touring productions, she traveled nationally and internationally from a young age. She attended auditions, performances, and she even had an agent in New York. Now, you heard that she and her mother -- and you will hear her brothers as well -- went to Epstein's home in Palm Beach a few times. They talked about music and the arts. Nothing amiss happened. That's it. Now, Jane did take some flights on Epstein's dime, and she went to New York and some other places as well. You will also learn that a month before Epstein's arrest in 2019, Jane did not want to be involved in any criminal case regarding Epstein. But after Epstein died, she changed her mind. When SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011726 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 61 of 106 65 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim marriage -- she and the two brothers that she shares both a mother and a father, attended professional high schools and performed in Florida, like a von Trapp trio. And in the summers, they all attended the prestigious Interlochen summer program where Jeffrey Epstein was a sponsor. He sponsored the building of a handicap-accessible lodge, he sponsored scholarships for talented youth, he sponsored many people who went through that program, as well as people who went to other programs and other schools. Now, you will learn that Jane was in a beauty pageant, singing competitions, including in Italy, she modeled, she performed in commercials, she sang, she was on Broadway shows that were in the local touring productions, she traveled nationally and internationally from a young age. She attended auditions, performances, and she even had an agent in New York. Now, you heard that she and her mother -- and you will hear her brothers as well -- went to Epstein's home in Palm Beach a few times. They talked about music and the arts. Nothing amiss happened. That's it. Now, Jane did take some flights on Epstein's dime, and she went to New York and some other places as well. You will also learn that a month before Epstein's arrest in 2019, Jane did not want to be involved in any criminal case regarding Epstein. But after Epstein died, she changed her mind. When SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016171 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 62 of 106 66 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim money was on the line, she changed her mind. She hired a lawyer, she became a client, they got in touch with the government, and said she changed her mind. Why? Because assisting the government would help a claim with the Epstein fund. Now, suddenly, after Epstein dies and she has a lawyer by her side, she now remembers all this horror that happened to her and places Ghislaine at the center of it all. Hundreds of things that happened to her that no one knew about, not her mother, not her brothers, not her teachers, not staff at the house, not her coaches, all of this that the government claims happened and she didn't skip a beat, nobody ever noticed anything amiss. Now, you will learn today she is a very successful actress in a soap opera. She's been on numerous sitcoms, reality shows, movies, podcasts, drama series. She is a consummate actress. She is a pro at playing roles. And as her scripts and characters change, so has her story that you will hear in this courtroom. I ask you to examine her testimony, and you will find internal inconsistencies. When money was on the line, she tagged Ghislaine. She got her application before the fund, and she received $5 million. Examine critically what she is going to say on the stand. Now, here's what we expect will show about Annie. Now, Annie's sister was an artist who was being promoted and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011727 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 62 of 106 66 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim money was on the line, she changed her mind. She hired a lawyer, she became a client, they got in touch with the government, and said she changed her mind. Why? Because assisting the government would help a claim with the Epstein fund. Now, suddenly, after Epstein dies and she has a lawyer by her side, she now remembers all this horror that happened to her and places Ghislaine at the center of it all. Hundreds of things that happened to her that no one knew about, not her mother, not her brothers, not her teachers, not staff at the house, not her coaches, all of this that the government claims happened and she didn't skip a beat, nobody ever noticed anything amiss. Now, you will learn today she is a very successful actress in a soap opera. She's been on numerous sitcoms, reality shows, movies, podcasts, drama series. She is a consummate actress. She is a pro at playing roles. And as her scripts and characters change, so has her story that you will hear in this courtroom. I ask you to examine her testimony, and you will find internal inconsistencies. When money was on the line, she tagged Ghislaine. She got her application before the fund, and she received $5 million. Examine critically what she is going to say on the stand. Now, here's what we expect will show about Annie. Now, Annie's sister was an artist who was being promoted and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016172 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 63 of 106 67 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim commissioned by Epstein, painted. She painted her young siblings. She worked in Epstein's New York home while it was under renovation. And she was eager and excited for Annie to meet Epstein. She hoped that Epstein could help promote her ambitions. So she came to New York when she was 16 and she met Epstein. Epstein alone. Ghislaine was not there; she was not in the country. It was just Annie, her sister, and Epstein. She found New York thrilling. She even wrote about it in a diary. And she was planning a school enhancement trip to Thailand. And her sister encouraged her to meet Epstein for his support. Now, some time later, with her mother's permission, Annie at 16 went to Santa Fe. That was the first and only time she ever met Ghislaine, and nothing criminal happened there. And you will learn that she was above the age of consent in New Mexico. MS. COMEY: Objection. THE COURT: I need to hear from you. (Pages 68 to 76 SEALED) (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011728 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 63 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 commissioned by Epstein, painted. She painted her young 2 siblings. She worked in Epstein's New York home while it was 3 under renovation. And she was eager and excited for Annie to 4 meet Epstein. She hoped that Epstein could help promote her 5 ambitions. So she came to New York when she was 16 and she met 6 Epstein. Epstein alone. Ghislaine was not there: she was not 7 in the country. It was just Annie, her sister, and Epstein. 8 She found New York thrilling. She even wrote about it in a 9 diary. And she was planning a school enhancement trip to 10 Thailand. And her sister encouraged her to meet Epstein for 11 his support. 12 Now, some time later, with her mother's permission, 13 Annie at 16 went to Santa Fe. That was the first and only time 14 she ever met Ghislaine, and nothing criminal happened there. 15 And you will learn that she was above the age of consent in New 16 Mexico. 17 MS. COMEY: Objection. 18 THE COURT: I need to hear from you. 19 (Pages 68 to 76 SEALED) 20 (Continued on next page) 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016173 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 64 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim (In open court) THE COURT: Thank you for your patience. Ms. Sternheim, you may proceed. MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. Let's go back to Annie for just a couple of minutes. Whatever you hear Annie claim happened there, Annie did not believe that she was a victim until later. People convinced her otherwise. And interestingly, she will tell you that she stopped writing in her diary before the events she will testify to concerning New Mexico. Now, Annie is a 41-year-old psychotherapist who met Ghislaine once in Santa Fe. Never saw her again. Never saw Epstein after that. Never traveled to New York after that. She now promotes herself as a victim and speaks publicly. Now, you should wonder why she is even a part of this case. Because from our perspective, what happened in New Mexico is not illegal conduct under the terms of this indictment. She will claim that she's scarred by what happened there. Yet ask yourself, if it was so traumatic, why has she kept for 25 years the boots she claims Epstein purchased for her to wear in the snake-filled brush of Santa Fe, boots that have been well-worn over more than two decades. Now, Annie's lawyers helped to set up the fund, and she was awarded $1.5 million for whatever she claims and didn't believe was victimizing in Santa Fe. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011729 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 64 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 (In open court) 2 THE COURT: Thank you for your patience. 3 Ms. Sternheim, you may proceed. 4 MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you. 5 Let's go back to Annie for just a couple of minutes. 6 Whatever you hear Annie claim happened there, Annie did not believe that she was a victim until later. People convinced her otherwise. And interestingly, she will tell you that she stopped writing in her diary before the events she will testify to concerning New Mexico. 7 Now, Annie is a 41-year-old psychotherapist who met Ghislaine once in Santa Fe. Never saw her again. Never saw Epstein after that. Never traveled to New York after that. 8 She now promotes herself as a victim and speaks publicly. 9 Now, you should wonder why she is even a part of this case. Because from our perspective, what happened in New Mexico is not illegal conduct under the terms of this indictment. She will claim that she's scarred by what happened there. Yet ask yourself, if it was so traumatic, why has she kept for 25 years the boots she claims Epstein purchased for her to wear in the snake-filled brush of Santa Fe, boots that have been well-worn over more than two decades. Now, Annie's lawyers helped to set up the fund, and she was awarded $1.5 million for whatever she claims and didn't believe was victimizing in Santa Fe. 10 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016174 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 65 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 Now, here's what we expect Kate to talk about: 2 Now, Kate has admitted that she's ambitious. She led 3 a jet-setter lifestyle. Before meeting Ghislaine and Epstein, 4 she was in a relationship with a man twice her age, a former 5 Oxford classmate of Ghislaine, a friend of Ghislaine, a 6 prominent older British gentleman. Kate was above the age of 7 consent in Britain. And when she came to the United States, 8 she was above the age of consent in New York and in Florida and 9 anywhere else she claims she had been. 10 Now, she will tell you that she used drugs during the 11 period of time that she will testify about, and that it fogged 12 her memory. And you will learn that she eagerly spent time 13 with Epstein and, at times, with Ghislaine. But what is really 14 telling is the emails that she sent to Jeffrey Epstein, 15 continuing a relationship with him for over a decade. She 16 maintained contact with Epstein when he was in jail; she 17 eagerly sent him pictures of herself. When his sentence was 18 over, she contacted him, eager to visit with him and stay with 19 him. 20 Now, Kate is a 44-year-old former actress, model, and 21 socialite from the United Kingdom. She has lived in the States 22 for years, coming here on an entertainment visa. She is no 23 longer in the entertainment business. 24 When Epstein died, she pointed the finger at 25 Ghislaine. And you should wonder why she's here. She is not SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011730 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 65 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 Now, here's what we expect Kate to talk about: 2 Now, Kate has admitted that she's ambitious. She led a jet-setter lifestyle. Before meeting Ghislaine and Epstein, she was in a relationship with a man twice her age, a former Oxford classmate of Ghislaine, a friend of Ghislaine, a prominent older British gentleman. Kate was above the age of consent in Britain. And when she came to the United States, she was above the age of consent in New York and in Florida and anywhere else she claims she had been. 10 Now, she will tell you that she used drugs during the period of time that she will testify about, and that it fogged her memory. And you will learn that she eagerly spent time with Epstein and, at times, with Ghislaine. But what is really telling is the emails that she sent to Jeffrey Epstein, continuing a relationship with him for over a decade. She maintained contact with Epstein when he was in jail; she eagerly sent him pictures of herself. When his sentence was over, she contacted him, eager to visit with him and stay with him. 20 Now, Kate is a 44-year-old former actress, model, and socialite from the United Kingdom. She has lived in the States for years, coming here on an entertainment visa. She is no longer in the entertainment business. 24 When Epstein died, she pointed the finger at Ghislaine. And you should wonder why she's here. She is not SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016175 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 66 of 106 79 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim alleged to be a victim in this case. Nonetheless, she settled her claim with the fund for three and-a-quarter million dollars. She assisted the government and she will be here. And in turn, that assisted her claim. But she's also seeking assistance from the government to help her to get a visa, a special visa for government witnesses. Now, three and a quarter million dollars is a lot of money, but it cannot buy you a visa. And maybe her testimony will. You will evaluate that. Now, the last accuser is Carolyn. And admittedly, she had a troubled past, lived a dangerous lifestyle, was using drugs during the period of time that she interacted with Epstein. Let me just stop for a second. There's a different time period that we're in now. We are now in about 2002, whereas Jane, Annie, and Kate were in the mid to late '90s. Carolyn was introduced to Epstein not by Ghislaine, by a woman named Virginia Roberts. Roberts was paid by Epstein to recruit females for him to get massages. She offered the opportunity to Carolyn to meet Epstein, and Carolyn readily agreed. The evidence that you will hear with regard to Carolyn, which relate to the trafficking charges in Counts Five and Six, counts that only relate to Carolyn, had nothing to do with Ghislaine. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011731 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 66 of 106 79 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim alleged to be a victim in this case. Nonetheless, she settled her claim with the fund for three and-a-quarter million dollars. She assisted the government and she will be here. And in turn, that assisted her claim. But she's also seeking assistance from the government to help her to get a visa, a special visa for government witnesses. Now, three and a quarter million dollars is a lot of money, but it cannot buy you a visa. And maybe her testimony will. You will evaluate that. Now, the last accuser is Carolyn. And admittedly, she had a troubled past, lived a dangerous lifestyle, was using drugs during the period of time that she interacted with Epstein. Let me just stop for a second. There's a different time period that we're in now. We are now in about 2002, whereas Jane, Annie, and Kate were in the mid to late '90s. Carolyn was introduced to Epstein not by Ghislaine, by a woman named Virginia Roberts. Roberts was paid by Epstein to recruit females for him to get massages. She offered the opportunity to Carolyn to meet Epstein, and Carolyn readily agreed. The evidence that you will hear with regard to Carolyn, which relate to the trafficking charges in Counts Five and Six, counts that only relate to Carolyn, had nothing to do with Ghislaine. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016176 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 67 of 106 80 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim Now, like many of the other accusers, but even more startling here, Carolyn's story changed dramatically. Back in around 2007, she was interviewed by the FBI about Epstein. She did not have a lawyer at that time, but she answered their questions. And later, she hired an attorney and sued Epstein and his assistant, Sarah Kellen. She did not sue Ghislaine. She then brought another lawsuit in federal court in Florida. Again, she sued Epstein and Kellen. She did not sue Ghislaine. Ghislaine had not come up during that interview in 2007. Ghislaine was not identified as anyone who recruited Carolyn or groomed Carolyn or otherwise interacted with Carolyn in Palm Beach. As I said, two suits by Carolyn, none involved Ghislaine. You will see the length of the complaint against Epstein and Kellen. It doesn't include Ghislaine. Now, the evidence will also show that Carolyn actually groomed and trafficked other people to Epstein. And after Epstein died and there was money to be had, her lawyer contacted the government, and now her story included Ghislaine. And assisting the government enhanced her application to the fund, and she got three and a half million dollars, less the 40 or $50,000 that she had received in one of her lawsuits against Epstein and Kellen. Now, early on, the judge told you that the burden is on the government to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011732 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 67 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 Now, like many of the other accusers, but even more startling here, Carolyn's story changed dramatically. 2 Back in around 2007, she was interviewed by the FBI about Epstein. She did not have a lawyer at that time, but she answered their questions. And later, she hired an attorney and sued Epstein and his assistant, Sarah Kellen. She did not sue Ghislaine. 3 She then brought another lawsuit in federal court in Florida. Again, she sued Epstein and Kellen. She did not sue Ghislaine. Ghislaine had not come up during that interview in 2007. Ghislaine was not identified as anyone who recruited Carolyn or groomed Carolyn or otherwise interacted with Carolyn in Palm Beach. As I said, two suits by Carolyn, none involved Ghislaine. You will see the length of the complaint against Epstein and Kellen. It doesn't include Ghislaine. 4 Now, the evidence will also show that Carolyn actually groomed and trafficked other people to Epstein. And after Epstein died and there was money to be had, her lawyer contacted the government, and now her story included Ghislaine. And assisting the government enhanced her application to the fund, and she got three and a half million dollars, less the 40 or $50,000 that she had received in one of her lawsuits against Epstein and Kellen. 5 Now, early on, the judge told you that the burden is on the government to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016177 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 68 of 106 81 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim I don't even, as part of the defense, have to make an opening statement, but far be it for a lawyer not to want to talk. And you will hear that we will question witnesses, we will put in evidence, we will make objections for the judge to rule on. But I ask you to keep in mind that in asking questions of witnesses that may make witnesses feel uncomfortable, there is no interest in asking those questions to shame anyone. The purpose of our job is to see whether the government has proven the charges beyond a reasonable doubt, and you do that through questioning. Now, the government went through the charges, and I'm just going to quickly wrap them up. Counts One and Three are conspiracy charges; One having to do with enticing minors to cross state lines, and Three having to do with transport of minors across state lines. And those pertain to all four of the accusers. Counts Two and Four, which are called substantive crimes, allege actual enticement and actual transportation. And those only pertain to Jane. Now, with regard to Counts Five and Six, the trafficking charge, charges conspiracy and the substantive offense. As I said before, that only pertains to Carolyn. I ask you to keep that in mind. But with regard to any of the charges, the proof that the government has indicated they will put forth the stories of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011733 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 68 of 106 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 I don't even, as part of the defense, have to make an opening statement, but far be it for a lawyer not to want to talk. And you will hear that we will question witnesses, we will put in evidence, we will make objections for the judge to rule on. 2 But I ask you to keep in mind that in asking questions of witnesses that may make witnesses feel uncomfortable, there is no interest in asking those questions to shame anyone. The purpose of our job is to see whether the government has proven the charges beyond a reasonable doubt, and you do that through questioning. 3 Now, the government went through the charges, and I'm just going to quickly wrap them up. 4 Counts One and Three are conspiracy charges; One having to do with enticing minors to cross state lines, and Three having to do with transport of minors across state lines. And those pertain to all four of the accusers. 5 Counts Two and Four, which are called substantive crimes, allege actual enticement and actual transportation. And those only pertain to Jane. 6 Now, with regard to Counts Five and Six, the trafficking charge, charges conspiracy and the substantive offense. As I said before, that only pertains to Carolyn. I ask you to keep that in mind. 7 But with regard to any of the charges, the proof that the government has indicated they will put forth the stories of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 69 of 106 82 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim the witnesses on the stand will not establish beyond a reasonable doubt any of those six charges. Now, age of consent is an important factor that you will focus on. And you will learn that in New York, the age of consent is 17 years old. You will learn that there are witnesses, the accusers, some that never traveled to New York and some that did that were above the age of consent. And you need to listen to their testimony as to where they claim they were and what age they were when they were there, because that is critically important to the charges in this indictment. And with regard to the trafficking charges, the age of consent is 18. But regardless of what Carolyn's age was at the time of those charges, the evidence will not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that those charges have been proven. Now, the government has pinned its entire case on the notion that Ghislaine enabled Epstein's bad behavior. The evidence will not support that. There will be no eyewitnesses, there may be some secondhand and thirdhand witnesses, there may be witnesses who said she told me this, she told me that. They are not eyewitnesses. They are only repeating what was told to them, and you have to evaluate the credibility of who told them what. What you will hear are stories that are based on words, and words alone. There will not be the kind of corroboration, if any corroboration, to support the charges. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011734 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 69 of 106 82 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim the witnesses on the stand will not establish beyond a reasonable doubt any of those six charges. Now, age of consent is an important factor that you will focus on. And you will learn that in New York, the age of consent is 17 years old. You will learn that there are witnesses, the accusers, some that never traveled to New York and some that did that were above the age of consent. And you need to listen to their testimony as to where they claim they were and what age they were when they were there, because that is critically important to the charges in this indictment. And with regard to the trafficking charges, the age of consent is 18. But regardless of what Carolyn's age was at the time of those charges, the evidence will not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that those charges have been proven. Now, the government has pinned its entire case on the notion that Ghislaine enabled Epstein's bad behavior. The evidence will not support that. There will be no eyewitnesses, there may be some secondhand and thirdhand witnesses, there may be witnesses who said she told me this, she told me that. They are not eyewitnesses. They are only repeating what was told to them, and you have to evaluate the credibility of who told them what. What you will hear are stories that are based on words, and words alone. There will not be the kind of corroboration, if any corroboration, to support the charges. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016179 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 70 of 106 83 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim There will not be substantive evidence that supports the charges. The exhibits that the government is going to claim corroborates, will not and will not overcome their burden. They will not overcome reasonable doubt. And the stories of the individual accusers cannot be used to corroborate other accusers' stories; they are personal stories to them. The government is trying to stitch together stories of four different people, four different stories to support a pattern. The only pattern that you will see here is the success of those four people getting big money rewards from the Epstein fund. Each accuser's story is thin; it lacks support. It's like taking paper cutouts and putting them together, cutouts that can't stand on their own, even linked together cannot substantiate and stand and will not support the charges here beyond a reasonable doubt. I ask you to scrutinize closely all of the evidence, all of the exhibits, all of the documents, but pay particular attention to those four accusers. They have been impacted by lawyers, by media, by things they have read and things they have heard, and by money, big bucks. And I ask you again, in evaluating them and listening to them, focus on memory, manipulation, and money. Evaluate each of them for credibility, plausibility, reliability. (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011735 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 70 of 106 83 LBTVMAX3 Opening - Ms. Sternheim 1 There will not be substantive evidence that supports the charges. The exhibits that the government is going to claim corroborates, will not and will not overcome their burden. They will not overcome reasonable doubt. 5 And the stories of the individual accusers cannot be used to corroborate other accusers' stories; they are personal stories to them. The government is trying to stitch together stories of four different people, four different stories to support a pattern. The only pattern that you will see here is the success of those four people getting big money rewards from the Epstein fund. 12 Each accuser's story is thin; it lacks support. It's like taking paper cutouts and putting them together, cutouts that can't stand on their own, even linked together cannot substantiate and stand and will not support the charges here beyond a reasonable doubt. 17 I ask you to scrutinize closely all of the evidence, all of the exhibits, all of the documents, but pay particular attention to those four accusers. They have been impacted by lawyers, by media, by things they have read and things they have heard, and by money, big bucks. And I ask you again, in evaluating them and listening to them, focus on memory, manipulation, and money. Evaluate each of them for credibility, plausibility, reliability. 25 (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016180 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 71 of 106 84 LBTCMAX4 1 MS. STERNHEIM: Until now, even though they got money 2 from a fund, their words have been untested and unchallenged, 3 and for the first time, they are being put to the test, whether 4 they support the charges beyond a reasonable doubt. 5 You have heard about the presumption of innocence. 6 That is what every person charged with a crime is cloaked in. 7 No jury can remove that unless the government proves each and 8 every element of each count beyond a reasonable doubt and they 9 won't be able to do that, they won't be able to meet their 10 burden. 11 As I said before, Jeffrey Epstein is not here, 12 Ghislaine is here, but you have the power at the end of this 13 case after we've come back and present argument to show how the 14 government has not met its burden. You have the power to 15 return a verdict of not guilty for Ghislaine Maxwell. 16 Thank you. 17 THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Sternheim. 18 Let's take a 10-minute break for the jury and we'll 19 have the government call its first witness. 20 Members of the jury, 10-minute break. Thank you. 21 (Continued on next page) 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011736 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 71 of 106 LBTCMAX4 1 MS. STERNHEIM: Until now, even though they got money 2 from a fund, their words have been untested and unchallenged, 3 and for the first time, they are being put to the test, whether 4 they support the charges beyond a reasonable doubt. 5 You have heard about the presumption of innocence. 6 That is what every person charged with a crime is cloaked in. 7 No jury can remove that unless the government proves each and 8 every element of each count beyond a reasonable doubt and they 9 won't be able to do that, they won't be able to meet their 10 burden. 11 As I said before, Jeffrey Epstein is not here, 12 Ghislaine is here, but you have the power at the end of this 13 case after we've come back and present argument to show how the 14 government has not met its burden. You have the power to 15 return a verdict of not guilty for Ghislaine Maxwell. 16 Thank you. 17 THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Sternheim. 18 Let's take a 10-minute break for the jury and we'll 19 have the government call its first witness. 20 Members of the jury, 10-minute break. Thank you. 21 (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016181 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 72 of 106 85 LBTCMAX4 (Jury not present) THE COURT: You may be seated. Matters to take up? MS. COMEY: No, your Honor. THE COURT: Ms. Sternheim? MS. STERNHEIM: No. MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, just on choreography again, we are going to put the binder up when cross begins as a backup option. When the time comes to hand the jury the folders -- THE COURT: Are we going to get to cross? How long is the direct? MS. COMEY: It's at least an hour. Your Honor, that does remind we, we have binders of sealed exhibits for the jurors. I do anticipate looking at one sealed exhibit during the direct testimony. May we pass those binders out while the jurors are on a break or would you prefer that we wait until that point in the testimony? THE COURT: So, it's a binder that has multiple exhibits, but one that you anticipate and the defense has it? MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor, the defense has seen this binder. THE COURT: Any objection, Mr. Everdell? MR. EVERDELL: No, your Honor. THE COURT: So you want to put the binders under the chairs? MS. COMEY: Yes, please, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011737 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 72 of 106 85 LBTCMAX4 (Jury not present) THE COURT: You may be seated. Matters to take up? MS. COMEY: No, your Honor. THE COURT: Ms. Sternheim? MS. STERNHEIM: No. MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, just on choreography again, we are going to put the binder up when cross begins as a backup option. When the time comes to hand the jury the folders -- THE COURT: Are we going to get to cross? How long is the direct? MS. COMEY: It's at least an hour. Your Honor, that does remind we, we have binders of sealed exhibits for the jurors. I do anticipate looking at one sealed exhibit during the direct testimony. May we pass those binders out while the jurors are on a break or would you prefer that we wait until that point in the testimony? THE COURT: So, it's a binder that has multiple exhibits, but one that you anticipate and the defense has it? MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor, the defense has seen this binder. THE COURT: Any objection, Mr. Everdell? MR. EVERDELL: No, your Honor. THE COURT: So you want to put the binders under the chairs? MS. COMEY: Yes, please, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016182 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 73 of 106 86 LBTCMAX4 1 MR. EVERDELL: As long as the Court instructs the jurors not to -- 2 3 THE COURT: I'll tell them that I may direct them to open binders under the chairs and they should not do so until directed. Okay? 4 5 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. Thank you. 6 7 THE COURT: Other exhibits, nonsealed exhibits, those will be shown on the screen? 8 9 MS. COMEY: That's correct, your Honor. 10 11 THE COURT: All right. 10-minute break. Thank you. 12 (Recess) 13 THE COURT: The jury inquired as to the holiday schedule. So, I did intend to tell them at the end of the day that the plan is to sit the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday before Christmas and the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday before New Year's Eve, and that I'll fill them in on any adjustments to the schedule as we go and give them as much notice as I can. 14 15 I also intend to tell them that I'd like them to get here at 9:00 and the jury room will be open earlier than that and breakfast and the like so that we can start promptly at 9:30. And counsel, I'll meet with you tomorrow, let's say 8:45, to make sure we can cover issues before the jury arrives. 16 17 I do plan to address the scheduling issue at the end of the day. 18 19 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 20 DOJ-OGR-00011738 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 73 of 106 LBTCMAX4 1 MR. EVERDELL: As long as the Court instructs the 2 jurors not to -- 3 THE COURT: I'll tell them that I may direct them to 4 open binders under the chairs and they should not do so until directed. Okay? 5 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. Thank you. 6 7 THE COURT: Other exhibits, nonsealed exhibits, those 8 will be shown on the screen? 9 MS. COMEY: That's correct, your Honor. 10 THE COURT: All right. 10-minute break. Thank you. 11 (Recess) 12 THE COURT: The jury inquired as to the holiday 13 schedule. So, I did intend to tell them at the end of the day 14 that the plan is to sit the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday before 15 Christmas and the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday before New Year's 16 Eve and New Year's, and that I'll fill them in on any 17 adjustments to the schedule as we go and give them as much 18 notice as I can. 19 I also intend to tell them that I'd like them to get 20 here at 9:00 and the jury room will be open earlier than that 21 and breakfast and the like so that we can start promptly at 22 9:30. And counsel, I'll meet with you tomorrow, let's say 23 8:45, to make sure we can cover issues before the jury arrives. 24 I do plan to address the scheduling issue at the end of the 25 day. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016183 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 74 of 106 87 LBTCMAX4 Matters to take up, Ms. Comey? MS. COMEY: Not from the government, your Honor. THE COURT: Mr. Everdell? MR. EVERDELL: Nothing, your Honor. THE COURT: We'll bring in the jury. Ms. Comey, this will be your witness? MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011739 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 74 of 106 LBTCMAX4 1 Matters to take up, Ms. Comey? 2 MS. COMEY: Not from the government, your Honor. 3 THE COURT: Mr. Everdell? 4 MR. EVERDELL: Nothing, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: We'll bring in the jury. 6 Ms. Comey, this will be your witness? 7 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. 8 (Continued on next page) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016184 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 75 of 106 88 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 (Jury present) 2 THE COURT: Thank you, members of the jury. The 3 government, in a moment, will call its first witness. As I 4 said, we will stop promptly at 5 o'clock. 5 Ms. Comey, you may call your first witness. 6 MS. COMEY: The government calls Lawrence Visoski. 7 LAWRENCE VISOSKI, 8 called as a witness by the Government, 9 having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 10 THE COURT: You may remove your mask in the Plexiglass 11 and please state and spell your name for the record. 12 THE WITNESS: Sure. My name is Lawrence Paul Visoski, 13 Jr. L-a-w-r-e-n-c-e, Paul, P-a-u-l, Visoski, V-i-s-o-s-k-i 14 junior. 15 THE COURT: Thank you. Ms. Comey, you may proceed. 16 DIRECT EXAMINATION 17 BY MS. COMEY: 18 Q. Good afternoon. 19 A. Good afternoon, Ms. Comey. 20 Q. Do you go by any nicknames? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What nicknames? 23 A. Larry. 24 Q. What kind of work do you do? 25 A. I am an airline transport pilot and a commercial instrument SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011740 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 75 of 106 88 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 (Jury present) 2 THE COURT: Thank you, members of the jury. The government, in a moment, will call its first witness. As I said, we will stop promptly at 5 o'clock. 5 Ms. Comey, you may call your first witness. 6 MS. COMEY: The government calls Lawrence Visoski. 7 LAWRENCE VISOSKI, 8 called as a witness by the Government, 9 having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 10 THE COURT: You may remove your mask in the Plexiglass and please state and spell your name for the record. 12 THE WITNESS: Sure. My name is Lawrence Paul Visoski, 13 Jr. L-a-w-r-e-n-c-e, Paul, P-a-u-l, Visoski, V-i-s-o-s-k-i junior. 15 THE COURT: Thank you. Ms. Comey, you may proceed. 16 DIRECT EXAMINATION 17 BY MS. COMEY: 18 Q. Good afternoon. 19 A. Good afternoon, Ms. Comey. 20 Q. Do you go by any nicknames? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What nicknames? 23 A. Larry. 24 Q. What kind of work do you do? 25 A. I am an airline transport pilot and a commercial instrument SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016185 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 76 of 106 89 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct rated helicopter pilot. Q. I'd like to direct your attention to the period between 1991 and 2019. Who did you work for then? A. I was employed by Mr. Jeffrey Epstein. Q. What was your job title? A. I was captain during the initial part and then I also handled the aircraft maintenance scheduling. Q. In other words, were you a pilot? A. I was a pilot, yes. Q. And what kind of planes did you pilot? A. We had several aircraft, Hawker Siddeley, Gulf Stream, Boeings. Q. Were those Mr. Epstein's private planes? A. Yes. Q. About when were you first hired? A. I believe I was hired July of 1991. Q. Where were you hired? A. In Columbus, Ohio. Q. Who hired you? A. Mr. Epstein. Q. How did you come to be hired by Mr. Epstein? A. Actually, my current employment, while in Columbus, Ohio, they were selling the aircraft, and the flight department that was based right next to me at Columbus Airport, their chief pilot knew of an opportunity of Mr. Epstein purchasing SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011741 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 76 of 106 89 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct rated helicopter pilot. Q. I'd like to direct your attention to the period between 1991 and 2019. Who did you work for then? A. I was employed by Mr. Jeffrey Epstein. Q. What was your job title? A. I was captain during the initial part and then I also handled the aircraft maintenance scheduling. Q. In other words, were you a pilot? A. I was a pilot, yes. Q. And what kind of planes did you pilot? A. We had several aircraft, Hawker Siddeley, Gulf Stream, Boeings. Q. Were those Mr. Epstein's private planes? A. Yes. Q. About when were you first hired? A. I believe I was hired July of 1991. Q. Where were you hired? A. In Columbus, Ohio. Q. Who hired you? A. Mr. Epstein. Q. How did you come to be hired by Mr. Epstein? A. Actually, my current employment, while in Columbus, Ohio, they were selling the aircraft, and the flight department that was based right next to me at Columbus Airport, their chief pilot knew of an opportunity of Mr. Epstein purchasing SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016186 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 77 of 106 90 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct aircraft, so I interviewed with Mr. Epstein. Q. And after the interview, were you hired? A. Yes, I was. Q. Who else, if anyone, was hired at the same time you were? A. Another pilot, David Rogers. Q. How did you know him? A. We were actually working together in the previous job. So we actually transferred together as a team. Q. How long did Mr. Rogers work for Mr. Epstein? A. Same duration as myself. MS. COMEY: Ms. Drescher, could we please pull up Government Exhibit 112 for the witness, the Court, and the parties. Q. I'm sure showing you what's marked for identification as Government Exhibit 112. Do you recognize that? A. Yes, I do. Q. Who is depicted in that exhibit? A. That's Mr. Jeffrey Epstein. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers Exhibit 112 in evidence. MR. EVEDELL: No objection. THE COURT: Without objection, Government Exhibit 112 is received and may be published. (Government's Exhibit 112 received in evidence) MS. COMEY: Thank you. I'd ask we please publish it, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011742 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 77 of 106 90 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct aircraft, so I interviewed with Mr. Epstein. Q. And after the interview, were you hired? A. Yes, I was. Q. Who else, if anyone, was hired at the same time you were? A. Another pilot, David Rogers. Q. How did you know him? A. We were actually working together in the previous job. So we actually transferred together as a team. Q. How long did Mr. Rogers work for Mr. Epstein? A. Same duration as myself. MS. COMEY: Ms. Drescher, could we please pull up Government Exhibit 112 for the witness, the Court, and the parties. Q. I'm sure showing you what's marked for identification as Government Exhibit 112. Do you recognize that? A. Yes, I do. Q. Who is depicted in that exhibit? A. That's Mr. Jeffrey Epstein. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers Exhibit 112 in evidence. MR. EVEDELL: No objection. THE COURT: Without objection, Government Exhibit 112 is received and may be published. (Government's Exhibit 112 received in evidence) MS. COMEY: Thank you. I'd ask we please publish it, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016187 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 78 of 106 91 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 Ms. Drescher. 2 Q. Mr. Visoski, about how old was Mr. Epstein when you first met him in 1991? 3 A. I believe he was 38 years old. 4 MS. COMEY: We can take that down. Thank you, 5 Ms. Drescher. 6 Q. What were your job responsibilities when you were first hired by Mr. Epstein? 7 A. When I was first hired by Mr. Epstein, I was captain on the aircraft, as well as -- I mentioned I took care of the aircraft maintenance because I'm also a licensed aircraft mechanic. So I took care of the maintenance, as well, on the aircraft. 8 Q. Did you also fly the planes? 9 A. I also flew the planes as captain, yes, ma'am. 10 Q. I'd like to focus on the period between 1994 and 2004. During that 10-year period, about how often did you fly Mr. Epstein's private planes? 11 A. It was pretty much every four days we were on the road flying somewhere. 12 Q. Was there a set schedule during that period? 13 A. No set schedule. 14 Q. During that same period, where did you fly to most often for Mr. Epstein? 15 A. We mainly transported him between his homes. He had several locations. So we were pretty much on a regular -- not SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011743 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 78 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 Ms. Drescher. 2 Q. Mr. Visoski, about how old was Mr. Epstein when you first met him in 1991? 3 met him in 1991? 4 A. I believe he was 38 years old. 5 MS. COMEY: We can take that down. Thank you, 6 Ms. Drescher. 7 Q. What were your job responsibilities when you were first hired by Mr. Epstein? 8 hired by Mr. Epstein? 9 A. When I was first hired by Mr. Epstein, I was captain on the aircraft, as well as -- I mentioned I took care of the aircraft maintenance because I'm also a licensed aircraft mechanic. So I took care of the maintenance, as well, on the aircraft. 10 aircraft, 11 maintenance because I'm also a licensed aircraft mechanic. So 12 I took care of the maintenance, as well, on the aircraft. 13 Q. Did you also fly the planes? 14 A. I also flew the planes as captain, yes, ma'am. 15 Q. I'd like to focus on the period between 1994 and 2004. 16 During that 10-year period, about how often did you fly Mr. Epstein's private planes? 17 Mr. Epstein's private planes? 18 A. It was pretty much every four days we were on the road flying somewhere. 19 flying somewhere. 20 Q. Was there a set schedule during that period? 21 A. No set schedule. 22 Q. During that same period, where did you fly to most often for Mr. Epstein? 23 for Mr. Epstein? 24 A. We mainly transported him between his homes. He had several locations. So we were pretty much on a regular -- not 25 several locations. So we were pretty much on a regular -- not SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016188 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 79 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct a regularly scheduled, but we flew Palm Beach, to New York, to St. Thomas, to Santa Fe, New Mexico, as well as Paris, France. Q. Again, focusing on the period between 1994 and 2004, who, if anyone, gave you notice of when Mr. Epstein's plane was going to depart? A. It would have been several people. Number one, Mr. Epstein would call directly and notify, as well as Ms. Maxwell or any other secretary or assistant in the office that had information about an impending flight to give us heads up or give me heads up about a flight. Q. Who was Ms. Maxwell? A. Ghislaine Maxwell was one of the assistants in the office for Mr. Epstein. Q. About when did you first meet Ms. Maxwell? A. Probably was shortly after I got hired in July of '91. So it was later on in '91, to generalize it, we're going back a little ways, but it was late in '91. Q. What did Ms. Maxwell look like when you first met her? A. She was approximately five-foot-eight, dark hair color, and she has a British accent. Q. About how old was Ms. Maxwell when you met her in 1991? A. She was 30 years old. Q. About how often did you interact with Ms. Maxwell during your time working for Mr. Epstein? A. We interacted quite often, interacted. She was mostly on a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011744 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 79 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct a regularly scheduled, but we flew Palm Beach, to New York, to St. Thomas, to Santa Fe, New Mexico, as well as Paris, France. Q. Again, focusing on the period between 1994 and 2004, who, if anyone, gave you notice of when Mr. Epstein's plane was going to depart? A. It would have been several people. Number one, Mr. Epstein would call directly and notify, as well as Ms. Maxwell or any other secretary or assistant in the office that had information about an impending flight to give us heads up or give me heads up about a flight. Q. Who was Ms. Maxwell? A. Ghislaine Maxwell was one of the assistants in the office for Mr. Epstein. Q. About when did you first meet Ms. Maxwell? A. Probably was shortly after I got hired in July of '91. So it was later on in '91, to generalize it, we're going back a little ways, but it was late in '91. Q. What did Ms. Maxwell look like when you first met her? A. She was approximately five-foot-eight, dark hair color, and she has a British accent. Q. About how old was Ms. Maxwell when you met her in 1991? A. She was 30 years old. Q. About how often did you interact with Ms. Maxwell during your time working for Mr. Epstein? A. We interacted quite often, interacted. She was mostly on a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016189 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 80 of 106 93 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 lot of the flights. She would also assist with scheduling. So we'd interacted quite often. 2 3 Q. At some point during your employment with Mr. Epstein, did 4 you notice that Ms. Maxwell was spending less time flying on 5 Mr. Epstein's planes? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. About when was that? 8 A. It was more in the mid 2000s, 2004-5ish. 9 Q. Between the period when you met Ms. Maxwell in 1991 and 10 when she was less frequently on flights in about 2004 or 2005, 11 how, if at all, did Ms. Maxwell's hairstyle change? 12 A. It changed frequently like most females. It changed with 13 the hairstyle of the time. So it was short and sometimes long. 14 Q. Would you recognize Ms. Maxwell if you saw her again today? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Looking around the courtroom here today, do you see her? 17 A. Yes, I do. 18 Q. Would you please point her out and identify an article of 19 clothing she's wearing? 20 A. Ms. Maxwell is over in the far corner with the white 21 sweater on and the dark hair. 22 MS. COMEY: Would the record please reflect, your 23 Honor, that the witness has identified the defendant. 24 THE COURT: Without objection, it so reflects. Thank 25 you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011745 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 80 of 106 93 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 lot of the flights. She would also assist with scheduling. So 2 we'd interacted quite often. 3 Q. At some point during your employment with Mr. Epstein, did 4 you notice that Ms. Maxwell was spending less time flying on 5 Mr. Epstein's planes? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. About when was that? 8 A. It was more in the mid 2000s, 2004-5ish. 9 Q. Between the period when you met Ms. Maxwell in 1991 and 10 when she was less frequently on flights in about 2004 or 2005, 11 how, if at all, did Ms. Maxwell's hairstyle change? 12 A. It changed frequently like most females. It changed with 13 the hairstyle of the time. So it was short and sometimes long. 14 Q. Would you recognize Ms. Maxwell if you saw her again today? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Looking around the courtroom here today, do you see her? 17 A. Yes, I do. 18 Q. Would you please point her out and identify an article of 19 clothing she's wearing? 20 A. Ms. Maxwell is over in the far corner with the white 21 sweater on and the dark hair. 22 MS. COMEY: Would the record please reflect, your 23 Honor, that the witness has identified the defendant. 24 THE COURT: Without objection, it so reflects. Thank 25 you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016190 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 81 of 106 94 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 MS. COMEY: Ms. Drescher, could we please pull up 2 Government Exhibit 115. 3 Q. Would you please take a look at this exhibit, Mr. Visoski, 4 and tell us if you recognize it. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Who is depicted in this exhibit? 7 A. That is Ghislaine Maxwell. 8 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers this 9 exhibit in evidence. 10 MR. EVERDELL: No objection. 11 THE COURT: Without objection, Government Exhibit 115 12 is admitted and you may publish. 13 (Government's Exhibit 115 received in evidence) 14 MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 15 Ms. Drescher I'd ask we please publish this exhibit. 16 And now I'd like to turn to Government Exhibit 111, 17 please, just for the witness, Ms. Drescher, and the parties and 18 the Court. 19 BY MS. COMEY: 20 Q. Do you recognize the person in this exhibit? 21 A. Yes, I do. 22 Q. Who is that? 23 A. That is also Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell. 24 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers this 25 exhibit in evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011746 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 81 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 MS. COMEY: Ms. Drescher, could we please pull up 2 Government Exhibit 115. 3 Q. Would you please take a look at this exhibit, Mr. Visoski, 4 and tell us if you recognize it. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Who is depicted in this exhibit? 7 A. That is Ghislaine Maxwell. 8 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers this 9 exhibit in evidence. 10 MR. EVERDELL: No objection. 11 THE COURT: Without objection, Government Exhibit 115 12 is admitted and you may publish. 13 (Government's Exhibit 115 received in evidence) 14 MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 15 Ms. Drescher I'd ask we please publish this exhibit. 16 And now I'd like to turn to Government Exhibit 111, 17 please, just for the witness, Ms. Drescher, and the parties and 18 the Court. 19 BY MS. COMEY: 20 Q. Do you recognize the person in this exhibit? 21 A. Yes, I do. 22 Q. Who is that? 23 A. That is also Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell. 24 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers this 25 exhibit in evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 82 of 106 95 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 MR. EVERDELL: No objection. 2 THE COURT: Without objection, Government Exhibit 111 is admitted. You may publish. 3 (Government's Exhibit 111 received in evidence) 4 MS. COMEY: Thank you. Ms. Drescher, I'd ask that we please publish this. And we can take that down. Thank you, Ms. Drescher. 5 BY MS. COMEY: 6 Q. Mr. Visoski, you mentioned that Ms. Maxwell worked for Mr. Epstein between approximately 1994 and 2004. Based on your observations of Ms. Maxwell, what was her role as an employee for Mr. Epstein? 7 A. She managed the households. She was involved, to my knowledge, in decorating, hiring household staff. During that time period, Mr. Epstein was quite -- was acquiring quite a lot of residences and quite large residences. So it took a lot to undertake of managing and hiring and decorating, et cetera. 8 Q. Focusing on the period between 1994 and 2004, how would Ms. Maxwell, Mr. Epstein, or another assistant let you know about an upcoming flight for one of Mr. Epstein's planes? 9 A. Since you're going back so far in the '94s, I believe that was before cellphones even. So when I first got hired, we were issued pagers, and at that point, the office would page us and we would call in for the message. Then I guess later on in the '90s when cellphones came to be, we were issued cellphones or I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011747 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 82 of 106 95 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 MR. EVERDELL: No objection. 2 THE COURT: Without objection, Government Exhibit 111 is admitted. You may publish. 3 (Government's Exhibit 111 received in evidence) 4 MS. COMEY: Thank you. Ms. Drescher, I'd ask that we please publish this. And we can take that down. Thank you, 5 Ms. Drescher. 6 BY MS. COMEY: 7 Q. Mr. Visoski, you mentioned that Ms. Maxwell worked for Mr. Epstein between approximately 1994 and 2004. Based on your 8 observations of Ms. Maxwell, what was her role as an employee for Mr. Epstein? 9 A. She managed the households. She was involved, to my knowledge, in decorating, hiring household staff. During that time 10 period, Mr. Epstein was quite -- was acquiring quite a lot of residences and quite large residences. So it took a lot to 11 undertake of managing and hiring and decorating, et cetera. 12 Q. Focusing on the period between 1994 and 2004, how would Ms. Maxwell, Mr. Epstein, or another assistant let you know 13 about an upcoming flight for one of Mr. Epstein's planes? 14 A. Since you're going back so far in the '94s, I believe that was before cellphones even. So when I first got hired, we were 15 issued pagers, and at that point, the office would page us and we would call in for the message. Then I guess later on in the 16 '90s when cellphones came to be, we were issued cellphones or I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016192 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 83 of 106 96 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct was issued a cellphone. Q. During that same period between 1994 and 2004, how much notice would you typically receive before a flight on one of Mr. Epstein's planes? A. It was typically short notice. It could be a day notice. Probably -- a day notice at least, sometimes shorter notice, but it was -- it was short notice. Q. Again, focusing on that same period between 1994 and 2004, based on your observations of Ms. Maxwell and Mr. Epstein, did they appear to have a personal relationship? A. From what I could see, I thought it was more personal than business, yes. Q. What did you observe, for example, that gave you that impression? A. I guess it's the way you would talk to another person if you were closer. It was more of a smalltalk as far as thinking that they were together as opposed to, you know, boss or not. But it was just a conversation that I saw, really. Q. About how long did that romantic relationship last from what you observed? A. It probably went to the 2000s. Yeah, about the 2000s. I wouldn't even categorize romantic, but more couplish than anything else. I don't think I ever witnessed them kiss or hold hands kind of thing. Q. To your knowledge, did Mr. Epstein only fly by private SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011748 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 83 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 was issued a cellphone. Q. During that same period between 1994 and 2004, how much notice would you typically receive before a flight on one of Mr. Epstein's planes? A. It was typically short notice. It could be a day notice. Probably -- a day notice at least, sometimes shorter notice, but it was -- it was short notice. Q. Again, focusing on that same period between 1994 and 2004, based on your observations of Ms. Maxwell and Mr. Epstein, did they appear to have a personal relationship? A. From what I could see, I thought it was more personal than business, yes. Q. What did you observe, for example, that gave you that impression? A. I guess it's the way you would talk to another person if you were closer. It was more of a smalltalk as far as thinking that they were together as opposed to, you know, boss or not. But it was just a conversation that I saw, really. Q. About how long did that romantic relationship last from what you observed? A. It probably went to the 2000s. Yeah, about the 2000s. I wouldn't even categorize romantic, but more couplish than anything else. I don't think I ever witnessed them kiss or hold hands kind of thing. Q. To your knowledge, did Mr. Epstein only fly by private SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016193 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 84 of 106 97 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 plane between 1994 and 2004? 2 A. Mostly private -- the private jet. The only time that he 3 would take the airlines was when the Concorde was flying. And 4 typically, he would take a Concorde from New York to Paris, but 5 otherwise anytime else, it was mostly private. 6 Q. How about Ms. Maxwell, during that same period, to your 7 knowledge, did she only fly on Mr. Epstein's private planes? 8 A. She flew on the private planes. And if memory serves, she 9 did ride the airlines, as well. And then, it was probably in 10 the late 1990s, she also had an option on a quarter share or a 11 private -- or a quarter ownership of a private jet, as well. 12 They call it a quarter share. 13 Q. What did Ms. Maxwell tell you about that? 14 A. That it was her jet, which, in fact, it was, because she 15 was partial owner of the jet and she had access to it with 16 notice. 17 Q. Could you explain the difference between flying on a 18 private plane and flying commercially. 19 A. Well, the best advantage is you leave when you want. 20 Otherwise, flying privately, security is much less. You don't 21 have TSA, you don't have x-rays, you come and go as you please, 22 pretty much. Some airports even let you drive your car 23 directly onto the ramp next to the aircraft and unload. So 24 it's a lot more freedom flying private. 25 Q. Typically, what, if any, interactions did you have with SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011749 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 84 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 plane between 1994 and 2004? 2 A. Mostly private -- the private jet. The only time that he 3 would take the airlines was when the Concorde was flying. And 4 typically, he would take a Concorde from New York to Paris, but 5 otherwise anytime else, it was mostly private. 6 Q. How about Ms. Maxwell, during that same period, to your 7 knowledge, did she only fly on Mr. Epstein's private planes? 8 A. She flew on the private planes. And if memory serves, she 9 did ride the airlines, as well. And then, it was probably in 10 the late 1990s, she also had an option on a quarter share or a 11 private -- or a quarter ownership of a private jet, as well. 12 They call it a quarter share. 13 Q. What did Ms. Maxwell tell you about that? 14 A. That it was her jet, which, in fact, it was, because she 15 was partial owner of the jet and she had access to it with 16 notice. 17 Q. Could you explain the difference between flying on a 18 private plane and flying commercially. 19 A. Well, the best advantage is you leave when you want. 20 Otherwise, flying privately, security is much less. You don't 21 have TSA, you don't have x-rays, you come and go as you please, 22 pretty much. Some airports even let you drive your car 23 directly onto the ramp next to the aircraft and unload. So 24 it's a lot more freedom flying private. 25 Q. Typically, what, if any, interactions did you have with SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016194 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 85 of 106 98 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct passengers on Mr. Epstein's private planes? 1 Q. 2 A. My interaction would be mostly when they either boarded or exited the airplane. I would assist with loading luggage. So my interaction was brief. Most of my duties were obviously up 3 4 5 in the cockpit. 6 Q. How, if at all, did you learn the names of passengers on a particular flight on one of Mr. Epstein's planes? 7 8 A. It was mainly not a priority to get a name, but we would try to be as accurate as we could. We would -- Mr. Epstein, 9 Ms. Maxwell, or even any of these secretaries at the office 10 would say, you know, so many people are going on the aircraft. 11 It wasn't as much important as a pilot knowing that how many 12 people were going as opposed to specifying the name if it was a 13 domestic flight. If it was an international flight, I would 14 need their names, et cetera. 15 16 Q. Did you learn the name of every single passenger who flew on Mr. Epstein's planes? 17 18 A. No. 19 Q. Why not? 20 A. Like I said, it wasn't a priority. I tried to get their 21 names. Typically, it was usually the same people that flew, so 22 I recognized their names with the first introduction. But it 23 just -- it wasn't convenient to get it. That wasn't my job to 24 jot down every person that flew on the aircraft. 25 Q. What, if any, of Mr. Epstein's residences did you visit SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011750 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 85 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 passengers on Mr. Epstein's private planes? 2 A. My interaction would be mostly when they either boarded or exited the airplane. I would assist with loading luggage. So my interaction was brief. Most of my duties were obviously up in the cockpit. 3 4 Q. How, if at all, did you learn the names of passengers on a particular flight on one of Mr. Epstein's planes? 5 A. It was mainly not a priority to get a name, but we would try to be as accurate as we could. We would -- Mr. Epstein, Ms. Maxwell, or even any of these secretaries at the office would say, you know, so many people are going on the aircraft. It wasn't as much important as a pilot knowing that how many people were going as opposed to specifying the name if it was a domestic flight. If it was an international flight, I would need their names, et cetera. 6 7 Q. Did you learn the name of every single passenger who flew on Mr. Epstein's planes? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Why not? 10 A. Like I said, it wasn't a priority. I tried to get their names. Typically, it was usually the same people that flew, so I recognized their names with the first introduction. But it just -- it wasn't convenient to get it. That wasn't my job to jot down every person that flew on the aircraft. 11 Q. What, if any, of Mr. Epstein's residences did you visit SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016195 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 86 of 106 99 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct during your employment with him? A. I'm sorry. You said which residence? Q. Which residences did you visit, yes. A. All of them. Q. Would you please list the ones that you remember. A. I would start in New York. He has a townhouse in New York -- Manhattan, Palm Beach, Florida, and then a ranch in Santa Fe, New -- or just south of Santa Fe, New Mexico. Actually Stanley, New Mexico. And actually an apartment in Paris. And then he also acquired an island in St. Thomas U.S. Virgin Islands, and then later on purchased a second island that adjoined, that's next door to the island in St. Thomas. I think I covered them all. Q. I'd like to walk through each of those, please. Starting with Palm Beach, about when do you remember first visiting Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach residence? A. That would have been actually on my first trip with Mr. Epstein. So that would have been 1991. Q. And in what state is Palm Beach located? A. That is Palm Beach, Florida. Q. About how often did you visit the Palm Beach residence during your employment with Mr. Epstein? A. I would visit the residence -- it would seem almost on every trip. I would either -- there has been occasion where I'd either go pick up luggage, drop off excess luggage. And SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011751 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 86 of 106 99 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct during your employment with him? A. I'm sorry. You said which residence? Q. Which residences did you visit, yes. A. All of them. Q. Would you please list the ones that you remember. A. I would start in New York. He has a townhouse in New York -- Manhattan, Palm Beach, Florida, and then a ranch in Santa Fe, New -- or just south of Santa Fe, New Mexico. Actually Stanley, New Mexico. And actually an apartment in Paris. And then he also acquired an island in St. Thomas U.S. Virgin Islands, and then later on purchased a second island that adjoined, that's next door to the island in St. Thomas. I think I covered them all. Q. I'd like to walk through each of those, please. Starting with Palm Beach, about when do you remember first visiting Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach residence? A. That would have been actually on my first trip with Mr. Epstein. So that would have been 1991. Q. And in what state is Palm Beach located? A. That is Palm Beach, Florida. Q. About how often did you visit the Palm Beach residence during your employment with Mr. Epstein? A. I would visit the residence -- it would seem almost on every trip. I would either -- there has been occasion where I'd either go pick up luggage, drop off excess luggage. And SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016196 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 87 of 106 100 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct there is other occasion that I've actually done some audio/video work at the home. MS. COMEY: I'd like to pull up, Ms. Drescher, please, what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 202. Q. Mr. Visoski, do you recognize this? A. Yes, I do. Q. What is it? A. That is the garage of the Palm Beach house that Mr. Epstein owns. Q. Is this a fair and accurate depiction of a portion of the exterior of Jeffrey Epstein's Palm Beach residence? A. Yes, it is. MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers this exhibit in evidence. MR. EVERDELL: No objection. THE COURT: Government Exhibit 202 is admitted. You may publish it. (Government's Exhibit 202 received in evidence) MS. COMEY: Thank you. Ms. Drescher, could we please publish that. I want to turn now please, Ms. Drescher, to Government Exhibit 212. BY MS. COMEY: Q. Mr. Visoski, do you recognize this? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011752 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 87 of 106 LBTMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 there is other occasion that I've actually done some audio/video work at the home. 2 3 MS. COMEY: I'd like to pull up, Ms. Drescher, please, what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 202. 4 5 6 Q. Mr. Visoski, do you recognize this? 7 A. Yes, I do. 8 Q. What is it? 9 A. That is the garage of the Palm Beach house that Mr. Epstein owns. 10 11 Q. Is this a fair and accurate depiction of a portion of the exterior of Jeffrey Epstein's Palm Beach residence? 12 13 A. Yes, it is. 14 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers this exhibit in evidence. 15 16 MR. EVERDELL: No objection. 17 THE COURT: Government Exhibit 202 is admitted. You may publish it. 18 19 (Government's Exhibit 202 received in evidence) 20 MS. COMEY: Thank you. Ms. Drescher, could we please publish that. 21 22 I want to turn now please, Ms. Drescher, to Government Exhibit 212. 23 24 BY MS. COMEY: 25 Q. Mr. Visoski, do you recognize this? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016197 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 88 of 106 101 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 A. Yes, I do. 2 Q. What is it? 3 A. That is the pool area of Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach house. 4 Q. Is this a fair and accurate depiction of another portion of 5 the exterior of Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach residence? 6 A. Yes, it is. 7 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers this in 8 evidence. 9 MR. EVERDELL: No objection. 10 THE COURT: Government Exhibit 212 is admitted is and 11 you may publish. 12 (Government's Exhibit 212 received in evidence) 13 MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 14 Ms. Drescher, may you please publish this for the 15 jury. 16 Q. Mr. Visoski, could you please describe the interior of 17 Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach residence. 18 A. Yes. If we start at the front door, you walk into the 19 front door, there is an entrance courtyard area. Once you're 20 inside the house, there is just obviously a large waiting area. 21 I guess it's easy, the first day, if you just walk to 22 your left, there is a half of staircase or half a circle 23 staircase that leads you to the upstairs bedrooms. 24 Once you get upstairs, you walk straight down the 25 hallway, there is a master bedroom located at the end of that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011753 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 88 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 A. Yes, I do. 2 Q. What is it? 3 A. That is the pool area of Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach house. 4 Q. Is this a fair and accurate depiction of another portion of 5 the exterior of Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach residence? 6 A. Yes, it is. 7 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers this in evidence. 8 MR. EVERDELL: No objection. 9 THE COURT: Government Exhibit 212 is admitted is and you may publish. 10 (Government's Exhibit 212 received in evidence) 11 MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 12 Ms. Drescher, may you please publish this for the jury. 13 Q. Mr. Visoski, could you please describe the interior of 14 Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach residence. 15 A. Yes. If we start at the front door, you walk into the front door, there is an entrance courtyard area. Once you're inside the house, there is just obviously a large waiting area. 16 I guess it's easy, the first day, if you just walk to your left, there is a half of staircase or half a circle staircase that leads you to the upstairs bedrooms. 17 Once you get upstairs, you walk straight down the hallway, there is a master bedroom located at the end of that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016198 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 89 of 106 102 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 hallway. 2 And then to the left, if you -- once you got up to the 3 top of the staircase, there is approximately three guest 4 bedrooms. 5 Now we're back downstairs at the entrance door. If 6 you continue to walk straight ahead from the front entrance 7 door, it led you into a Florida room, which, in New York, you 8 would call a family room, but it was a Florida room. Once you 9 came back from the Florida room from the entrance door and made 10 a left turn, that brought you into the kitchen that had a -- 11 obviously a Butler's pantry, which is a large area to store 12 excess kitchenware. And then the kitchen -- and then the 13 kitchen led out to the three-car garage, as you saw in the 14 photo. 15 Then we walk back into the entranceway by the main 16 door and you take the right turn. That took you to the living 17 room, which also led out to the back patio pool area that you 18 saw in the photo. 19 Once you got to the pool area, then you made a left 20 turn, there was a pool cabana that had Mr. Epstein's gym and 21 his personal office inside there. 22 Q. How many structures were on Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach 23 property? 24 A. There was actually three structures. If I went back to the 25 kitchen and walked out the garage, once you got out the garage, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011754 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 89 of 106 102 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 hallway. 2 And then to the left, if you -- once you got up to the 3 top of the staircase, there is approximately three guest 4 bedrooms. 5 Now we're back downstairs at the entrance door. If 6 you continue to walk straight ahead from the front entrance 7 door, it led you into a Florida room, which, in New York, you 8 would call a family room, but it was a Florida room. Once you 9 came back from the Florida room from the entrance door and made 10 a left turn, that brought you into the kitchen that had a -- 11 obviously a Butler's pantry, which is a large area to store 12 excess kitchenware. And then the kitchen -- and then the 13 kitchen led out to the three-car garage, as you saw in the 14 photo. 15 Then we walk back into the entranceway by the main 16 door and you take the right turn. That took you to the living 17 room, which also led out to the back patio pool area that you 18 saw in the photo. 19 Once you got to the pool area, then you made a left 20 turn, there was a pool cabana that had Mr. Epstein's gym and 21 his personal office inside there. 22 Q. How many structures were on Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach 23 property? 24 A. There was actually three structures. If I went back to the 25 kitchen and walked out the garage, once you got out the garage, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016199 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 90 of 106 103 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct later on, it was probably in the 2000s, so long ago that he built a structure that would actually house the Butler and the household staff that was actually separated. So, to answer your question, there was three structures on the property. Q. And those were the cabana, the main house, and the house for the staff? A. That is correct. Q. When you picked up luggage for Mr. Epstein at the Palm Beach residence, what airport did you then take it to? A. When we flew to Mr. Epstein's house in Palm Beach, we just used the West Palm Beach International Airport. Q. Between 1994 and 2004 when you were flying out of the Palm Beach International Airport, how did the passengers get to Mr. Epstein's plane? A. At the West Palm Beach airport, passengers are allowed to drive their vehicles right up to the aircraft and exit. They would pull up to the security gate and actually tell them the aircraft number. And then, at that time, the gate would open and the driver would be able to drive the car directly to the aircraft entrance front door. Q. As the pilot on the plane, were you able to see the car with the passengers pull up to the plane before a flight? A. I could see the driver and perhaps maybe the passenger. 99 percent of cars in Florida have tinted windows, so I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011755 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 90 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct later on, it was probably in the 2000s, so long ago that he built a structure that would actually house the Butler and the household staff that was actually separated. So, to answer your question, there was three structures on the property. Q. And those were the cabana, the main house, and the house for the staff? A. That is correct. Q. When you picked up luggage for Mr. Epstein at the Palm Beach residence, what airport did you then take it to? A. When we flew to Mr. Epstein's house in Palm Beach, we just used the West Palm Beach International Airport. Q. Between 1994 and 2004 when you were flying out of the Palm Beach International Airport, how did the passengers get to Mr. Epstein's plane? A. At the West Palm Beach airport, passengers are allowed to drive their vehicles right up to the aircraft and exit. They would pull up to the security gate and actually tell them the aircraft number. And then, at that time, the gate would open and the driver would be able to drive the car directly to the aircraft entrance front door. Q. As the pilot on the plane, were you able to see the car with the passengers pull up to the plane before a flight? A. I could see the driver and perhaps maybe the passenger. 99 percent of cars in Florida have tinted windows, so I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016200 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 91 of 106 104 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 probably couldn't see the passengers as well, but depending 2 upon how the car approached the aircraft, if I'm sitting in the 3 cockpit looking down, I would be able to see the driver of the 4 car. 5 Q. During that same period between 1994 and 2004, who do you 6 remember that you saw driving passengers up to Mr. Epstein's 7 plane in Palm Beach? 8 A. There were probably several. Typically, it was the house 9 manager at the time that would drive Mr. Epstein to the 10 airplane. One name comes to mind would be Juan Alessi, and 11 another would have been one of the house managers, Janusz. 12 There were probably a couple more that I'm just drawing a blank 13 on their names right now. 14 Q. That's fine. Now switching gears to New York, about when 15 do you remember first visiting Mr. Epstein's New York 16 residence? 17 A. Well, he first had a home on 69th Street, so it was in 1991 18 that I went to his very first residence, and then it was 19 probably a year or maybe two years later on that he had 20 purchased a different townhouse or brownstone, they call it, I 21 guess, on 71st Street. So it was immediately with my 22 employment I visited the home. 23 Q. Thank you. I'd like to go back to something you said 24 earlier about the Palm Beach airport. You referenced a house 25 manager as a driver. What is a house manager? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011756 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 91 of 106 L BTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 probably couldn't see the passengers as well, but depending 2 upon how the car approached the aircraft, if I'm sitting in the 3 cockpit looking down, I would be able to see the driver of the 4 car. 5 Q. During that same period between 1994 and 2004, who do you 6 remember that you saw driving passengers up to Mr. Epstein's 7 plane in Palm Beach? 8 A. There were probably several. Typically, it was the house 9 manager at the time that would drive Mr. Epstein to the 10 airplane. One name comes to mind would be Juan Alessi, and 11 another would have been one of the house managers, Janusz. 12 There were probably a couple more that I'm just drawing a blank 13 on their names right now. 14 Q. That's fine. Now switching gears to New York, about when 15 do you remember first visiting Mr. Epstein's New York 16 residence? 17 A. Well, he first had a home on 69th Street, so it was in 1991 18 that I went to his very first residence, and then it was 19 probably a year or maybe two years later on that he had 20 purchased a different townhouse or brownstone, they call it, I 21 guess, on 71st Street. So it was immediately with my 22 employment I visited the home. 23 Q. Thank you. I'd like to go back to something you said 24 earlier about the Palm Beach airport. You referenced a house 25 manager as a driver. What is a house manager? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016201 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 92 of 106 105 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 A. A house manager would be in charge of all the mechanical at 2 the house. Could go as far as grocery shopping. It's anything 3 involved with the house. Scheduling maintenance, lawn care. 4 If there was a water leak, he would call the plumber. He was 5 in charge of the home. 6 Q. And who were the two house managers you remember driving 7 passengers to Mr. Epstein's plane in Palm Beach between 1994 8 and 2004? 9 A. The first one that comes to mind is Juan Alessi. And then 10 I know there was Janusz, also worked at the house, but I don't 11 remember the timeframe that Janusz was there. 12 Q. Thank you. Going back to New York, I'd like to focus on 13 the second residence you mentioned. What borough was that 14 residence in? 15 A. That was Manhattan. 16 Q. And what was the address of that residence? 17 A. It was 9 East 71st Street. 18 Q. About how often did you visit that 9 East 71st Street 19 residence during your employment with Mr. Epstein? 20 A. It was pretty much every trip that we had to Manhattan or 21 New York. 22 Q. For what purpose did you go to that residence? 23 A. Typically, it was to drop off or pick up luggage before a 24 flight. It certainly saves time for the passengers. So that 25 was the whole idea of picking up luggage early. And then I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011757 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 92 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 A. A house manager would be in charge of all the mechanical at 2 the house. Could go as far as grocery shopping. It's anything 3 involved with the house. Scheduling maintenance, lawn care. 4 If there was a water leak, he would call the plumber. He was 5 in charge of the home. 6 Q. And who were the two house managers you remember driving 7 passengers to Mr. Epstein's plane in Palm Beach between 1994 8 and 2004? 9 A. The first one that comes to mind is Juan Alessi. And then 10 I know there was Janusz, also worked at the house, but I don't 11 remember the timeframe that Janusz was there. 12 Q. Thank you. Going back to New York, I'd like to focus on 13 the second residence you mentioned. What borough was that 14 residence in? 15 A. That was Manhattan. 16 Q. And what was the address of that residence? 17 A. It was 9 East 71st Street. 18 Q. About how often did you visit that 9 East 71st Street 19 residence during your employment with Mr. Epstein? 20 A. It was pretty much every trip that we had to Manhattan or 21 New York. 22 Q. For what purpose did you go to that residence? 23 A. Typically, it was to drop off or pick up luggage before a 24 flight. It certainly saves time for the passengers. So that 25 was the whole idea of picking up luggage early. And then I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016202 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 93 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 also set up audio/video equipment at that residence. 2 MS. COMEY: Ms. Drescher, could we please pull up 3 Government Exhibit 932 and then Government Exhibit 704 and show 4 both of those to the witness. 5 Q. Mr. Visoski, do you recognize these exhibits? 6 A. Yes, I do. 7 Q. What is depicted in both of these? 8 A. That is Mr. Epstein's brownstone at 9 East 71st Street. 9 Q. Are these both fair and accurate depictions of the exterior 10 of Mr. Epstein's New York residence? 11 A. Yes, they are. 12 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers these 13 exhibits in evidence. 14 MR. EVERDELL: No objection, your Honor. 15 THE COURT: GX 932 and 704 are admitted and you may 16 publish. 17 (Government's Exhibits 932, 704 received in evidence) 18 MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 19 Ms. Drescher, if we can please publish. 20 Q. While these are up, Mr. Visoski, would you please describe 21 the interior of this residence. 22 A. Yes. As you -- 23 THE WITNESS: Does the jury see the photo, also? 24 THE COURT: They do. 25 A. As you can see the large front door with the light there, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011758 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 93 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 also set up audio/video equipment at that residence. 2 MS. COMEY: Ms. Drescher, could we please pull up 3 Government Exhibit 932 and then Government Exhibit 704 and show 4 both of those to the witness. 5 Q. Mr. Visoski, do you recognize these exhibits? 6 A. Yes, I do. 7 Q. What is depicted in both of these? 8 A. That is Mr. Epstein's brownstone at 9 East 71st Street. 9 Q. Are these both fair and accurate depictions of the exterior 10 of Mr. Epstein's New York residence? 11 A. Yes, they are. 12 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers these 13 exhibits in evidence. 14 MR. EVERDELL: No objection, your Honor. 15 THE COURT: GX 932 and 704 are admitted and you may 16 publish. 17 (Government's Exhibits 932, 704 received in evidence) 18 MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 19 Ms. Drescher, if we can please publish. 20 Q. While these are up, Mr. Visoski, would you please describe 21 the interior of this residence. 22 A. Yes. As you -- 23 THE WITNESS: Does the jury see the photo, also? 24 THE COURT: They do. 25 A. As you can see the large front door with the light there, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016203 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 94 of 106 107 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct as soon as you enter that -- it probably has to be a 15-foot door. As soon as you walk in that entrance door, there is some steps that you walk up. Once you get up to the top of the foyer, if you made a left turn, there is a room which is actually round, what they call a rotunda. There is a round room that housed -- it would be like a secretary's desk inside there in a type of library, small library. And then, when you went back into the middle of the hall and went, continued across to the right, there was a security room in there which housed all the TV monitors that monitored all the outside activity of the house. Then, once you went back into the foyer and continued straight ahead and to the main lobby of the home, there was a spiral staircase that wrapped around, which was probably a four-story -- because that home was approximately seven stories, I believe. Then once you're in the foyer, the spiral staircase spiraled around and brought you up to the different levels. So we're still staying on the first floor. Once you continued straight ahead, that brought you into a large living room on the first floor. And then to the right side of that living room, there were a there was a smaller, normalize-size kitchen. Then there was a dumbwaiter that actually went down to the basement to a chef's professional kitchen so food could be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011759 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 94 of 106 107 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct as soon as you enter that -- it probably has to be a 15-foot door. As soon as you walk in that entrance door, there is some steps that you walk up. Once you get up to the top of the foyer, if you made a left turn, there is a room which is actually round, what they call a rotunda. There is a round room that housed -- it would be like a secretary's desk inside there in a type of library, small library. And then, when you went back into the middle of the hall and went, continued across to the right, there was a security room in there which housed all the TV monitors that monitored all the outside activity of the house. Then, once you went back into the foyer and continued straight ahead and to the main lobby of the home, there was a spiral staircase that wrapped around, which was probably a four-story -- because that home was approximately seven stories, I believe. Then once you're in the foyer, the spiral staircase spiraled around and brought you up to the different levels. So we're still staying on the first floor. Once you continued straight ahead, that brought you into a large living room on the first floor. And then to the right side of that living room, there were a there was a smaller, normalize-size kitchen. Then there was a dumbwaiter that actually went down to the basement to a chef's professional kitchen so food could be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016204 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 95 of 106 108 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct prepared in the basement and shipped upstairs. Then you continued back to the center and we go up the stairs, the second floor was pretty much a living room, to my knowledge, if I remember correctly. There was really the main -- the floor was a living room. And then once you went to the second and third floor, you got into the master bedroom, guest bedrooms, as well. And then it wasn't until you got to the -- I believe the sixth floor -- which was where the home theater was that I set up. So he had a home theater on the sixth floor, and I believe that also had the residence -- it was either -- it could have been the sixth floor, as far as the butler's residence, as well, for them to stay. Q. When Mr. Epstein was staying at this New York residence, what airport did you typically fly into? A. It depended upon what aircraft we were flying. At the time, in general, between the timeframe you're talking -- was this between '94 and -- Q. Yes. Thank you for clarifying. Between 1994 and 2004. A. If it was between '94 and 2000, we would operate out of Teterboro Airport. But if it was 2000 to 2004, Mr. Epstein had purchased a Boeing 727, which is a large airliner, and we weren't allowed to fly that aircraft due to weight into Teterboro, so we would operate out of Newark or JFK Airport with that plane. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011760 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 95 of 106 108 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct prepared in the basement and shipped upstairs. Then you continued back to the center and we go up the stairs, the second floor was pretty much a living room, to my knowledge, if I remember correctly. There was really the main -- the floor was a living room. And then once you went to the second and third floor, you got into the master bedroom, guest bedrooms, as well. And then it wasn't until you got to the -- I believe the sixth floor -- which was where the home theater was that I set up. So he had a home theater on the sixth floor, and I believe that also had the residence -- it was either -- it could have been the sixth floor, as far as the butler's residence, as well, for them to stay. Q. When Mr. Epstein was staying at this New York residence, what airport did you typically fly into? A. It depended upon what aircraft we were flying. At the time, in general, between the timeframe you're talking -- was this between '94 and -- Q. Yes. Thank you for clarifying. Between 1994 and 2004. A. If it was between '94 and 2000, we would operate out of Teterboro Airport. But if it was 2000 to 2004, Mr. Epstein had purchased a Boeing 727, which is a large airliner, and we weren't allowed to fly that aircraft due to weight into Teterboro, so we would operate out of Newark or JFK Airport with that plane. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016205 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 96 of 106 109 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 Q. What, if any, office did Mr. Epstein have in New York City that you visited between 1994 and 2004? 2 A. He had an office on Madison Avenue and 51st Street. 3 Q. And what borough is that located? 4 A. That is also Manhattan. 5 Q. About how often did you go to that office between 1994 and 2004? 6 A. Probably once a week or -- I shouldn't say once a week. Once a New York visit at least. 7 Q. How often approximately were you in New York during that decade? 8 A. Probably once a week. 9 Q. Why did you go to that office? 10 A. Mainly when I turned in my expense report. I also would speak with other employees about upcoming trips and trying to gather information about our future travel. But it was mainly to get my expense check. 11 Q. Would you describe that office, please. 12 A. It was located on the 4th floor of an office -- not even an office building. It was the 4th floor. Once you got out of the elevator, it was a receptionist desk. It was a smaller office. It was a narrow, narrow entranceway. So the receptionist had a desk right there. 13 Then, if you continued straight ahead from the elevator, there was a room that had approximately one, two -- SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 96 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct Q. What, if any, office did Mr. Epstein have in New York City that you visited between 1994 and 2004? A. He had an office on Madison Avenue and 51st Street. Q. And what borough is that located? A. That is also Manhattan. Q. About how often did you go to that office between 1994 and 2004? A. Probably once a week or -- I shouldn't say once a week. Once a New York visit at least. Q. How often approximately were you in New York during that decade? A. Probably once a week. Q. Why did you go to that office? A. Mainly when I turned in my expense report. I also would speak with other employees about upcoming trips and trying to gather information about our future travel. But it was mainly to get my expense check. Q. Would you describe that office, please. A. It was located on the 4th floor of an office -- not even an office building. It was the 4th floor. Once you got out of the elevator, it was a receptionist desk. It was a smaller office. It was a narrow, narrow entranceway. So the receptionist had a desk right there. Then, if you continued straight ahead from the elevator, there was a room that had approximately one, two -- SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016206 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 97 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct four or five desks that had pretty much the accounting department and some of other Mr. Epstein's investment personnel that watched investments and such. It was no divisions, it was just an open room with desks. Then you came out of that room, went past the receptionist, then there was another room in the middle of the hallway which had two desks in it, I believe, or maybe one large desk, and that was pretty much Mr. Epstein's attorney's office. Then, once we came out of that and we continued down the same hallway where the reception was to the end, right at the end of that was Mr. Epstein's main secretary's desk. Then once you're at the end of that hallway to the left of her desk was Mr. Epstein's main office, which was quite a large office. Once we left Mr. Epstein's office, you're back at the secretary's desk and you continued to the other side of the room. There was another large room that had one, two, three -- another five -- five desks. That is -- that was more of the personal assistant's room where they had a place to sit and work. Q. Who do you remember having a desk in that personal assistant room? A. There were several people that had desks that I remember there. I know Ms. Maxwell had a desk there. Sarah Kellen had a desk there. There was another personal assistant, I believe, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011762 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 97 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 four or five desks that had pretty much the accounting department and some of other Mr. Epstein's investment personnel that watched investments and such. It was no divisions, it was just an open room with desks. 2 Then you came out of that room, went past the receptionist, then there was another room in the middle of the hallway which had two desks in it, I believe, or maybe one large desk, and that was pretty much Mr. Epstein's attorney's office. 3 Then, once we came out of that and we continued down the same hallway where the reception was to the end, right at the end of that was Mr. Epstein's main secretary's desk. Then once you're at the end of that hallway to the left of her desk was Mr. Epstein's main office, which was quite a large office. 4 Once we left Mr. Epstein's office, you're back at the secretary's desk and you continued to the other side of the room. There was another large room that had one, two, three -- another five -- five desks. That is -- that was more of the personal assistant's room where they had a place to sit and work. 5 Q. Who do you remember having a desk in that personal assistant room? 6 A. There were several people that had desks that I remember there. I know Ms. Maxwell had a desk there. Sarah Kellen had a desk there. There was another personal assistant, I believe, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016207 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 98 of 106 111 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 Kimberly. I don't quite remember her last name. But there were several personal assistants that housed -- that kind of had base of operation in that room. THE COURT: Ms. Comey, it's 4:59, so I'm going to stop you here for the evening. Members of the jury, we're going to break for the evening. A few things to go over. I know you asked Ms. Williams about the schedule. As I indicated during the jury selection process, we do anticipate sitting each day. We're going to start promptly with you at 9:30 in the morning, so I ask you to arrive between 9:00 and 9:15. Earlier will be fine. Ms. Williams will have the jury room open for you, we'll have some breakfast items and snacks. Please come by 9:00 to 9:15 or earlier so we can start promptly at 9:30 and we'll sit to 5:00 again and that's our standard schedule. I know you asked about the holiday schedule. The current plan, as I indicated during jury selection, is that the week of Christmas, we'll sit Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So that's the 20th, 21st, and 22nd of December, and the week of New Year's we'll sit Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, the 27th, 28th, and 29th of December. That's the schedule. If I'm aware of any adjustments to the schedule, I'll let you know as soon as I know. I'm going to send you home asking you to please bear SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011763 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 98 of 106 111 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 Kimberly. I don't quite remember her last name. But there were several personal assistants that housed -- that kind of had base of operation in that room. 4 THE COURT: Ms. Comey, it's 4:59, so I'm going to stop 5 you here for the evening. 6 Members of the jury, we're going to break for the 7 evening. A few things to go over. 8 I know you asked Ms. Williams about the schedule. As 9 I indicated during the jury selection process, we do anticipate 10 sitting each day. We're going to start promptly with you at 11 9:30 in the morning, so I ask you to arrive between 9:00 and 12 9:15. Earlier will be fine. Ms. Williams will have the jury 13 room open for you, we'll have some breakfast items and snacks. 14 Please come by 9:00 to 9:15 or earlier so we can start promptly 15 at 9:30 and we'll sit to 5:00 again and that's our standard 16 schedule. 17 I know you asked about the holiday schedule. The 18 current plan, as I indicated during jury selection, is that the 19 week of Christmas, we'll sit Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So 20 that's the 20th, 21st, and 22nd of December, and the week of 21 New Year's we'll sit Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, the 27th, 22 28th, and 29th of December. That's the schedule. If I'm aware 23 of any adjustments to the schedule, I'll let you know as soon 24 as I know. 25 I'm going to send you home asking you to please bear SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016208 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 99 of 106 112 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 in mind all of my instructions to you. They're critically 2 important. I appreciate your time and your patience and your 3 attention and your diligence, and I look forward to seeing you 4 tomorrow morning, and Ms. Williams will show you out. Thank 5 you so much. 6 (Continued on next page) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011764 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 99 of 106 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 in mind all of my instructions to you. They're critically 2 important. I appreciate your time and your patience and your 3 attention and your diligence, and I look forward to seeing you 4 tomorrow morning, and Ms. Williams will show you out. Thank 5 you so much. 6 (Continued on next page) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016209 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 100 of 106 113 LBTCMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 (Jury not present) 2 (In open court) 3 THE COURT: Mr. Visoski, you may step down. We are through with you for the evening. We will see you in the morning. Everyone may be seated. 6 (Continued on next page) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011765 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 100 of 106 LBTMAX4 Visoski - direct 1 (Jury not present) 2 (In open court) 3 THE COURT: Mr. Visoski, you may step down. We are through with you for the evening. We will see you in the morning. Everyone may be seated. 4 (Continued on next page) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016210 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 101 of 106 LBTVMAX5 1 THE COURT: All right. Matters to take up, counsel? 2 MS. COMEY: Not from the government, your Honor. 3 MR. EVERDELL: No, your Honor, unless you want to talk about the cross choreography. 4 5 THE COURT: Sure. That's a good idea. 6 So you will have binders -- 7 MR. EVERDELL: Yes. 8 THE COURT: -- that will be placed under the jurors' chairs. 9 10 MR. EVERDELL: Let me be clear, your Honor. We will have a binder for the witness; although we are going to try to use the electronics, but we'll have a binder just in case for the witness. 11 12 THE COURT: Right. 13 14 MR. EVERDELL: And we have manila folders this big, which is two documents in them, each one page, for each of the jurors. And there will come a point where I will ask the jurors to look at these; but I think, similar to what we did with the government binders, if we can leave them there and instruct the jurors not to look at them. And then when I use them, I will show copies to the government before they open them up to make sure everything is okay. And then we can have them open it up if and when the Court approves that. 15 16 THE COURT: Okay. 17 18 And so you'll show the paper copies to the government. 19 20 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011766 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 101 of 106 LBTVMAX5 114 1 THE COURT: All right. Matters to take up, counsel? 2 MS. COMEY: Not from the government, your Honor. 3 MR. EVERDELL: No, your Honor, unless you want to talk about the cross choreography. 4 5 THE COURT: Sure. That's a good idea. 6 So you will have binders -- 7 MR. EVERDELL: Yes. 8 THE COURT: -- that will be placed under the jurors' chairs. 9 10 MR. EVERDELL: Let me be clear, your Honor. We will have a binder for the witness; although we are going to try to use the electronics, but we'll have a binder just in case for the witness. 11 12 THE COURT: Right. 13 14 MR. EVERDELL: And we have manila folders this big, which is two documents in them, each one page, for each of the jurors. And there will come a point where I will ask the jurors to look at these; but I think, similar to what we did with the government binders, if we can leave them there and instruct the jurors not to look at them. And then when I use them, I will show copies to the government before they open them up to make sure everything is okay. And then we can have them open it up if and when the Court approves that. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 THE COURT: Okay. 25 And so you'll show the paper copies to the government. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016211 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 102 of 106 115 LBTVMAX5 1 MR. EVERDELL: Yes. 2 THE COURT: I'll see and Ms. Williams will see the electronic version. 3 4 MR. EVERDELL: And the witness will too, yes. 5 THE COURT: And the witness. Right. 6 And then if permitted to display what you're showing, you'll use the electronic version with a careful description of exactly what page you're showing. And to the extent you're highlighting or pointing to any passage, you'll make that clear so that the government can follow along. And obviously if it is something that you've moved into evidence, it will be published to everyone, unless there's a redaction issue around identity. 14 MR. EVERDELL: I am going to ask to move it into evidence; but they are full names of real people, so they will have to be fully redacted. The exhibit itself is just the name of a person who is testifying either under a pseudonym or a first name. It's the full name. 19 THE COURT: Okay. So that is a sealed item entirely. So that won't be shown to the public. 21 MR. EVERDELL: Yes. 22 THE COURT: And therefore, can't be on the screens. 23 But the government will have the paper and the rest -- and I'll see and the witness will see the electronic version. 24 25 MR. EVERDELL: Correct. And we will even just have SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011767 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 102 of 106 LBTVMAX5 1 MR. EVERDELL: Yes. 2 THE COURT: I'll see and Ms. Williams will see the electronic version. 3 4 MR. EVERDELL: And the witness will too, yes. 5 THE COURT: And the witness. Right. 6 And then if permitted to display what you're showing, you'll use the electronic version with a careful description of exactly what page you're showing. And to the extent you're highlighting or pointing to any passage, you'll make that clear so that the government can follow along. And obviously if it is something that you've moved into evidence, it will be published to everyone, unless there's a redaction issue around identity. 14 MR. EVERDELL: I am going to ask to move it into evidence; but they are full names of real people, so they will have to be fully redacted. The exhibit itself is just the name of a person who is testifying either under a pseudonym or a first name. It's the full name. 19 THE COURT: Okay. So that is a sealed item entirely. So that won't be shown to the public. 21 MR. EVERDELL: Yes. 22 THE COURT: And therefore, can't be on the screens. 23 But the government will have the paper and the rest -- and I'll see and the witness will see the electronic version. 24 25 MR. EVERDELL: Correct. And we will even just have SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016212 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 103 of 106 116 LBTVMAX5 the jurors look at them in paper, because I know these jurors over here, their screens may face the gallery. So they can just look at them with the folder so nothing is facing the gallery. THE COURT: Okay. So the plan is not to put it on the juror screens at all. MR. EVERDELL: I'm sorry, your Honor, I think I just thought of that, because of the way those jurors are facing. So I think the better way to do this, at least for publishing it to the jury, is to use the folders so that the documents cannot be seen by anybody in the gallery. THE COURT: Okay. And the reason we're not just doing it on paper is because -- for at least for this witness is why? MR. EVERDELL: It is actually, for the large portion of things we want to show, like 3500 material or other things, a lot easier to show it electronically, a lot faster, I think, than having a witness tab through a large binder. We can go right to the page. If the witness needs other pages, we can cue those up at request. So I think it will actually promote efficiency to use the electronics with these particular exhibits. Because there are names of anonymized witnesses, we have to go through this extra bit of choreography. That's it, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Comey? MS. COMEY: I'll just note, your Honor, that we will SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011768 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 103 of 106 LBTVMAX5 116 the jurors look at them in paper, because I know these jurors over here, their screens may face the gallery. So they can just look at them with the folder so nothing is facing the gallery. THE COURT: Okay. So the plan is not to put it on the juror screens at all. MR. EVERDELL: I'm sorry, your Honor, I think I just thought of that, because of the way those jurors are facing. So I think the better way to do this, at least for publishing it to the jury, is to use the folders so that the documents cannot be seen by anybody in the gallery. THE COURT: Okay. And the reason we're not just doing it on paper is because -- for at least for this witness is why? MR. EVERDELL: It is actually, for the large portion of things we want to show, like 3500 material or other things, a lot easier to show it electronically, a lot faster, I think, than having a witness tab through a large binder. We can go right to the page. If the witness needs other pages, we can cue those up at request. So I think it will actually promote efficiency to use the electronics with these particular exhibits. Because there are names of anonymized witnesses, we have to go through this extra bit of choreography. That's it, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Comey? MS. COMEY: I'll just note, your Honor, that we will SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016213 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 104 of 106 117 LBTVMAX5 have papers, so we will have to tab through the binder ourselves; so there may be delays on our end. But that process is fine with us, if that's how the defense would like to proceed. THE COURT: All right. Look, if it's just a single piece of paper, for example, with a name, let's just use the paper. MR. EVERDELL: Yes. THE COURT: And otherwise, as I said, we'll try it this way. It sounds like there may be efficiencies, there may not be, but we'll try it just with the caution that I have granted anonymity. And so given the layout of the room, I don't want the -- although the names of the witnesses will be known to the jurors, they should not be published to the courtroom. MR. EVERDELL: We'll try and be very mindful of this, your Honor. That's why we are trying to think through this carefully. Before the cross starts, I'll put the paper binder in the witness box for the witness in case paper has to be used, even though that's a backup option. And I will put the manila folders under the jurors' chairs and they will be instructed not to look at them until the time is appropriate. THE COURT: Okay. And so the government has binders -- are you going to collect those binders for the evening? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 104 of 106 LBTVMAX5 117 have papers, so we will have to tab through the binder ourselves; so there may be delays on our end. But that process is fine with us, if that's how the defense would like to proceed. THE COURT: All right. Look, if it's just a single piece of paper, for example, with a name, let's just use the paper. MR. EVERDELL: Yes. THE COURT: And otherwise, as I said, we'll try it this way. It sounds like there may be efficiencies, there may not be, but we'll try it just with the caution that I have granted anonymity. And so given the layout of the room, I don't want the -- although the names of the witnesses will be known to the jurors, they should not be published to the courtroom. MR. EVERDELL: We'll try and be very mindful of this, your Honor. That's why we are trying to think through this carefully. Before the cross starts, I'll put the paper binder in the witness box for the witness in case paper has to be used, even though that's a backup option. And I will put the manila folders under the jurors' chairs and they will be instructed not to look at them until the time is appropriate. THE COURT: Okay. And so the government has binders -- are you going to collect those binders for the evening? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016214 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 105 of 106 118 LBTVMAX5 1 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. 2 THE COURT: And then you'll put them back there in the 3 morning. 4 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: And I'm not sure if we'll get -- if we'll 6 do a break -- so it sounds like the defense should put the 7 folders underneath in the morning as well, in case we get to 8 cross before the break. Is that okay with everyone? 9 MS. COMEY: That's fine, your Honor. 10 MR. EVERDELL: That's fine, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: Okay. Great. 12 Other matters to take up in the immediate -- 13 MS. COMEY: No, your Honor. 14 MR. EVERDELL: Not from the defense. 15 THE COURT: Okay. We'll meet at 8:45 just to discuss 16 issues as we need to. Please think through issues that may 17 come up that require discussion out of the presence of the 18 jury. It was disappointing to have multiple sidebars during 19 openings today. And I encourage all of us to do what we can to 20 avoid that by thinking through and raising issues in advance, 21 okay? 22 MR. EVERDELL: Yes, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Good. All right. Thank you. Have a good 24 evening, everyone. I'll see you in the morning. 25 (Adjourned to November 30, 2021 at 8:45 a.m.) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00011770 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 741 Filed 08/10/22 Page 105 of 106 118 LBTVMAX5 1 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. 2 THE COURT: And then you'll put them back there in the 3 morning. 4 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: And I'm not sure if we'll get -- if we'll 6 do a break -- so it sounds like the defense should put the 7 folders underneath in the morning as well, in case we get to 8 cross before the break. Is that okay with everyone? 9 MS. COMEY: That's fine, your Honor. 10 MR. EVERDELL: That's fine, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: Okay. Great. 12 Other matters to take up in the immediate -- 13 MS. COMEY: No, your Honor. 14 MR. EVERDELL: Not from the defense. 15 THE COURT: Okay. We'll meet at 8:45 just to discuss 16 issues as we need to. Please think through issues that may 17 come up that require discussion out of the presence of the 18 jury. It was disappointing to have multiple sidebars during 19 openings today. And I encourage all of us to do what we can to 20 avoid that by thinking through and raising issues in advance, 21 okay? 22 MR. EVERDELL: Yes, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Good. All right. Thank you. Have a good 24 evening, everyone. I'll see you in the morning. 25 (Adjourned to November 30, 2021 at 8:45 a.m.) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016215