Document 757

Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 1 of 49 1974 LC9VMAXT UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK ----------------------------------------x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v. 20 CR 330 (AJN) GHISLAINE MAXWELL, Defendant. Jury Trial ----------------------------------------x New York, N.Y. December 9, 2021 9:00 a.m. Before: HON. ALISON J. NATHAN, District Judge APPEARANCES DAMIAN WILLIAMS United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York BY: MAURENE COMEY ALISON MOE LARA POMERANTZ ANDREW ROHRBACH Assistant United States Attorneys HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN Attorneys for Defendant BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA LAURA A. MENNINGER -and- BOBBI C. STERNHEIM -and- COHEN & GRESSER BY: CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL Also Present: Amanda Young, FBI Paul Byrne, NYPD Sunny Drescher, Paralegal, U.S. Attorney's Office Ann Lundberg, Paralegal, Haddon Morgan and Foreman SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013542 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 1 of 49 1974 LC9VMAXT UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK ----------------------------------------x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v. 20 CR 330 (AJN) GHISLAINE MAXWELL, Defendant. Jury Trial ----------------------------------------x New York, N.Y. December 9, 2021 9:00 a.m. Before: HON. ALISON J. NATHAN, District Judge APPEARANCES DAMIAN WILLIAMS United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York BY: MAURENE COMEY ALISON MOE LARA POMERANTZ ANDREW ROHRBACH Assistant United States Attorneys HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN Attorneys for Defendant BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA LAURA A. MENNINGER -and- BOBBI C. STERNHEIM -and- COHEN & GRESSER BY: CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL Also Present: Amanda Young, FBI Paul Byrne, NYPD Sunny Drescher, Paralegal, U.S. Attorney's Office Ann Lundberg, Paralegal, Haddon Morgan and Foreman SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019125 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 2 of 49 1975 LC9VMAXT (Trial resumed; jury not present) THE COURT: All right. Matters to take up. MS. COMEY: There were just a couple issues that we wanted to put on the record, your Honor. First, I've conferred with defense counsel, and they have indicated that they are releasing Carolyn from recall. So I understand that any sequestration order no longer applies to her. MR. PAGLIUCA: That's correct, your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Thank you. MS. COMEY: And then I also conferred with defense counsel about Kimberly Meder and whether she would be permitted to be in the courtroom for the remainder of trial. I'm told by defense counsel that they have no objection; though, of course, they may end up seeking to recall her in the defense case, but that they have no objection to her being in the courtroom. MR. EVERDELL: That's correct, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MS. COMEY: And then with respect to redacted 296, which was the video of the Palm Beach residence, defense counsel has been reviewing the redacted version that we sent them on Tuesday. Once they have their position on its admissibility, we will formally offer it. MR. PAGLIUCA: Also correct, your Honor. THE COURT: Great. Okay. Thank you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013543 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 2 of 49 1975 LC9VMAXT (Trial resumed; jury not present) THE COURT: All right. Matters to take up. MS. COMEY: There were just a couple issues that we wanted to put on the record, your Honor. First, I've conferred with defense counsel, and they have indicated that they are releasing Carolyn from recall. So I understand that any sequestration order no longer applies to her. MR. PAGLIUCA: That's correct, your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Thank you. MS. COMEY: And then I also conferred with defense counsel about Kimberly Meder and whether she would be permitted to be in the courtroom for the remainder of trial. I'm told by defense counsel that they have no objection; though, of course, they may end up seeking to recall her in the defense case, but that they have no objection to her being in the courtroom. MR. EVERDELL: That's correct, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MS. COMEY: And then with respect to redacted 296, which was the video of the Palm Beach residence, defense counsel has been reviewing the redacted version that we sent them on Tuesday. Once they have their position on its admissibility, we will formally offer it. MR. PAGLIUCA: Also correct, your Honor. THE COURT: Great. Okay. Thank you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019126 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 3 of 49 1976 LC9VMAXT 1 MR. EVERDELL: Just a few procedural things from the defense. 2 3 I believe the next witness from the government is going to be Tracy Chapell from Federal Express. And I have some documents I can hand up to the Court. I have one exhibit that I intend to introduce through Ms. Chapel which I've given to the government; I can give the Court a copy. It's going to be done in paper. 4 5 These are Federal Express invoices. 6 7 I'm going to offer them -- assuming they are allowed to be admitted, I will offer them under temporary seal because we haven't had the chance to go through and do all the redactions. But we will do that as soon as we can and get the Court a redacted copy so that that could be published publicly. 8 9 But for the moment, we'll have to do this under seal. 10 11 THE COURT: Is there going to be a lot of walking the witness through the document? 12 13 MR. EVERDELL: No. Actually I'm just going to admit them; no walking through, it's going to be for the jury's eyes if they want to see it. 14 15 THE COURT: Okay. And so a redacted version for the public by when? 16 17 MR. EVERDELL: If we could do it over the weekend, because there's a decent number of records, and have them ready by Monday, we could do that. 18 19 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013544 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 3 of 49 1976 LC9VMAXT 1 MR. EVERDELL: Just a few procedural things from the defense. 2 3 I believe the next witness from the government is going to be Tracy Chapell from Federal Express. And I have some documents I can hand up to the Court. I have one exhibit that I intend to introduce through Ms. Chapel which I've given to the government; I can give the Court a copy. It's going to be done in paper. 4 5 These are Federal Express invoices. 6 7 I'm going to offer them -- assuming they are allowed to be admitted, I will offer them under temporary seal because we haven't had the chance to go through and do all the redactions. But we will do that as soon as we can and get the Court a redacted copy so that that could be published publicly. 8 9 But for the moment, we'll have to do this under seal. 10 11 THE COURT: Is there going to be a lot of walking the witness through the document? 12 13 MR. EVERDELL: No. Actually I'm just going to admit them; no walking through, it's going to be for the jury's eyes if they want to see it. 14 15 THE COURT: Okay. And so a redacted version for the public by when? 16 17 MR. EVERDELL: If we could do it over the weekend, because there's a decent number of records, and have them ready by Monday, we could do that. 18 19 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 20 DOJ-OGR-00019127 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 4 of 49 1977 LC9VMAXT 1 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. 2 MR. EVERDELL: I have a copy which I can hand up to 3 the Court now. 4 THE COURT: Sure. Thank you. 5 MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, on that same score, we'd 6 like to be able to put folders under the jurors' chairs with 7 that exhibit in them that they would only be asked to open if 8 it's admitted. 9 MS. COMEY: No objection, your Honor. 10 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. 11 MR. EVERDELL: I will take care of that. 12 Thank you, your Honor. 13 MS. MENNINGER: Good morning, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Good morning, Ms. Menninger. 15 MS. MENNINGER: A couple of issues. 16 I've conferred with the government, and I believe we 17 have agreement. I would like to just put them on the record 18 prior to the testimony of Annie Farmer. She is not testifying 19 anonymously, your Honor. Therefore, my plan is to use the 20 counsel screen as one normally would in these situations, 21 rather than so much of the paper. But we have binders in the 22 event someone wants to look at the whole set, for the Court, 23 the government for any impeachment materials, and for the 24 witness. 25 THE COURT: Correct to assume that none of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013545 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 4 of 49 1977 LC9VMAXT 1 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. 2 MR. EVERDELL: I have a copy which I can hand up to 3 the Court now. 4 THE COURT: Sure. Thank you. 5 MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, on that same score, we'd 6 like to be able to put folders under the jurors' chairs with 7 that exhibit in them that they would only be asked to open if 8 it's admitted. 9 MS. COMEY: No objection, your Honor. 10 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. 11 MR. EVERDELL: I will take care of that. 12 Thank you, your Honor. 13 MS. MENNINGER: Good morning, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Good morning, Ms. Menninger. 15 MS. MENNINGER: A couple of issues. 16 I've conferred with the government, and I believe we 17 have agreement. I would like to just put them on the record 18 prior to the testimony of Annie Farmer. She is not testifying 19 anonymously, your Honor. Therefore, my plan is to use the 20 counsel screen as one normally would in these situations, 21 rather than so much of the paper. But we have binders in the 22 event someone wants to look at the whole set, for the Court, 23 the government for any impeachment materials, and for the 24 witness. 25 THE COURT: Correct to assume that none of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019128 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 5 of 49 1978 LC9VMAXT documents you'll show her have the full or real names of the other witnesses testifying under pseudonym? MS. MENNINGER: Right, your Honor. I don't think they had any interaction with one another. I don't believe there's anything in here that references anyone else. THE COURT: Okay. MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, there is a substantial amount of hearsay, both within the record and also in the public domain as between Annie Farmer and her sister Maria Farmer. I've conferred with the government that there won't be hearsay being offered from Maria Farmer, with the exception of at least one place I know where it's in effect on the listener that Annie traveled to New York because her sister told her to come there. But outside of that, we have agreed that we're not having -- there's no other hearsay exception that applies to Maria Farmer's statements. Within that subset, your Honor, there has been a contention by Maria Farmer that nude photographs or provocative photographs were stolen from her. None were found when Mr. Epstein's home was searched. That, again, would be hearsay from Maria and is not planning to be a part of the government's case or the defense's cross. And lastly, your Honor, because Ms. Farmer is herself a practicing therapist, psychologist, she has made a number of statements publicly about her opinions on the topic of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013546 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 5 of 49 1978 LC9VMAXT documents you'll show her have the full or real names of the other witnesses testifying under pseudonym? MS. MENNINGER: Right, your Honor. I don't think they had any interaction with one another. I don't believe there's anything in here that references anyone else. THE COURT: Okay. MS. MENNINGER: Your Honor, there is a substantial amount of hearsay, both within the record and also in the public domain as between Annie Farmer and her sister Maria Farmer. I've conferred with the government that there won't be hearsay being offered from Maria Farmer, with the exception of at least one place I know where it's in effect on the listener that Annie traveled to New York because her sister told her to come there. But outside of that, we have agreed that we're not having -- there's no other hearsay exception that applies to Maria Farmer's statements. Within that subset, your Honor, there has been a contention by Maria Farmer that nude photographs or provocative photographs were stolen from her. None were found when Mr. Epstein's home was searched. That, again, would be hearsay from Maria and is not planning to be a part of the government's case or the defense's cross. And lastly, your Honor, because Ms. Farmer is herself a practicing therapist, psychologist, she has made a number of statements publicly about her opinions on the topic of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019129 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 6 of 49 1979 LC9VMAXT grooming. As she was not endorsed, obviously, under 702, I expect that she will not use that word or give anything that sounds like an opinion along those lines. She's here as a fact witness, your Honor. And the government has agreed they don't intend to offer any opinion testimony from her. THE COURT: Great. Thank you. MS. POMERANTZ: That all sounds accurate, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Pomerantz. What else to take up? MR. PAGLIUCA: Your Honor, if I might, I don't know if the Court wants to take this up now, but I'll just give this as a preview for later. The government has endorsed Mr. Buscemi as a, as I understand it, summary witness. This is a 1006 issue. As I understand it, I don't believe that this is an appropriate summary witness under 1006. As I understand it, the purpose is to talk about testimony or pieces of evidence that have been admitted, specifically not to analyze any complex records or other business transactions or phone records or things like that. So I just wanted to give the Court a heads-up on that. I'm not exactly sure precisely what he's being offered to testify about, but I expect that there will be an objection to that testimony before it happens. THE COURT: Who will I hear from? MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013547 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 6 of 49 1979 LC9VMAXT grooming. As she was not endorsed, obviously, under 702, I expect that she will not use that word or give anything that sounds like an opinion along those lines. She's here as a fact witness, your Honor. And the government has agreed they don't intend to offer any opinion testimony from her. THE COURT: Great. Thank you. MS. POMERANTZ: That all sounds accurate, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Pomerantz. What else to take up? MR. PAGLIUCA: Your Honor, if I might, I don't know if the Court wants to take this up now, but I'll just give this as a preview for later. The government has endorsed Mr. Buscemi as a, as I understand it, summary witness. This is a 1006 issue. As I understand it, I don't believe that this is an appropriate summary witness under 1006. As I understand it, the purpose is to talk about testimony or pieces of evidence that have been admitted, specifically not to analyze any complex records or other business transactions or phone records or things like that. So I just wanted to give the Court a heads-up on that. I'm not exactly sure precisely what he's being offered to testify about, but I expect that there will be an objection to that testimony before it happens. THE COURT: Who will I hear from? MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019130 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 7 of 49 1980 LC9VMAXT As we explained to the defense this morning, we anticipate calling Special Agent Michael Buscemi as a summary witness, as is common in this district. His testimony will be limited to his analysis of exhibits; he won't be analyzing testimony of other witnesses. There are a number of exhibits in this case which have not yet been published or reviewed during the course of this case; and so we anticipate fairly brief testimony from Special Agent Buscemi about his review of several exhibits. In short, the testimony will concern, among other things, the message pads, the majority of which have not been published or viewed by the jury at this point. And the purpose of the testimony is to connect up several exhibits and review them in a way to make those exhibits clear to the jury and publish them to show, for example, the continuity of certain phone numbers and names, where they change over time, where they are in the message books in order to make that clear for the jury. I anticipate that the testimony from Special Agent Buscemi would be likely something like 15 to 20 minutes, maybe slightly more, again, just talking about exhibits and the similarity of phone numbers and names between a variety of different exhibits. That's the scope of his testimony. Our view is that's consistent with the way summary witnesses are called in many trials in this district and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013548 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 7 of 49 1980 LC9VMAXT As we explained to the defense this morning, we anticipate calling Special Agent Michael Buscemi as a summary witness, as is common in this district. His testimony will be limited to his analysis of exhibits; he won't be analyzing testimony of other witnesses. There are a number of exhibits in this case which have not yet been published or reviewed during the course of this case; and so we anticipate fairly brief testimony from Special Agent Buscemi about his review of several exhibits. In short, the testimony will concern, among other things, the message pads, the majority of which have not been published or viewed by the jury at this point. And the purpose of the testimony is to connect up several exhibits and review them in a way to make those exhibits clear to the jury and publish them to show, for example, the continuity of certain phone numbers and names, where they change over time, where they are in the message books in order to make that clear for the jury. I anticipate that the testimony from Special Agent Buscemi would be likely something like 15 to 20 minutes, maybe slightly more, again, just talking about exhibits and the similarity of phone numbers and names between a variety of different exhibits. That's the scope of his testimony. Our view is that's consistent with the way summary witnesses are called in many trials in this district and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019131 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 8 of 49 1981 LC9VMAXT doesn't exceed the scope of the ordinary practice. THE COURT: Let's take the specific example that you've given on message pads. So just give me an example of the kind of testimony he would provide there. MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. So, for example, within the message pads, we published yesterday, I think, just either two or three specific messages that had a first and last name of someone and a phone number. But elsewhere throughout the message pads, there appear entries that only have a first name, and sometimes that entry is, for example, Carolyn and sometimes it's Caroline. But when you compare the phone numbers -- and there are a variety of different phone numbers throughout the book -- it becomes clear that Caroline is the same Carolyn, first and last name, as some of the other messages, because there's continuity between the phone numbers. And there are a variety of different phone numbers throughout the exhibits with different names like Carolyn, Caroline, and Carolyn with a last name. And reviewing them and analyzing them makes it clear throughout the books and across a variety of different dates that we're talking about the same person. And so that facilitates both publishing the exhibits so that the jury can see them for the first time, and doing that in a way that sort of connects up those different exhibits. And so that's the purpose of that testimony. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013549 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 8 of 49 1981 LC9VMAXT doesn't exceed the scope of the ordinary practice. THE COURT: Let's take the specific example that you've given on message pads. So just give me an example of the kind of testimony he would provide there. MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. So, for example, within the message pads, we published yesterday, I think, just either two or three specific messages that had a first and last name of someone and a phone number. But elsewhere throughout the message pads, there appear entries that only have a first name, and sometimes that entry is, for example, Carolyn and sometimes it's Caroline. But when you compare the phone numbers -- and there are a variety of different phone numbers throughout the book -- it becomes clear that Caroline is the same Carolyn, first and last name, as some of the other messages, because there's continuity between the phone numbers. And there are a variety of different phone numbers throughout the exhibits with different names like Carolyn, Caroline, and Carolyn with a last name. And reviewing them and analyzing them makes it clear throughout the books and across a variety of different dates that we're talking about the same person. And so that facilitates both publishing the exhibits so that the jury can see them for the first time, and doing that in a way that sort of connects up those different exhibits. And so that's the purpose of that testimony. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019132 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 9 of 49 1982 LC9VMAXT 1 THE COURT: Let's take that example, Mr. Pagliuca. 2 MR. PAGLIUCA: Your Honor, the problem, I think, is 3 that it is simply highlighting a specific piece of evidence; 4 that this is summation, essentially, and not witness testimony. 5 The witness has no personal knowledge of the phone calls. The 6 witness is simply comparing this to that, which is what should 7 be done in summation or should have been done with the witness 8 who actually was the testifying witness with the exhibit. 9 10 Ms. Hesse, for example. You have that message pad? Yes. 11 Compare that message pad with this particular record. Are 12 those the same phone numbers? I suppose that could happen. 13 Or with Carolyn, could have been asked, Is that your 14 phone number? Does that match the record? 15 This is simply an FBI agent who's going to take those 16 pieces of evidence selectively and then talk about them; this 17 matches this, this matches that. I don't believe that's 18 appropriate under 1006, which is, you know, the rule that 19 allows for summary exhibits, for example, but does not allow 20 for summary testimony of things that have already been admitted 21 into evidence. 22 Certainly in the government's closing argument they 23 can do this and they can make whatever arguments they want. 24 But this is simply a closing argument through a summary witness 25 in the middle of a trial before a very long break, and I just SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013550 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 9 of 49 1982 LC9VMAXT 1 THE COURT: Let's take that example, Mr. Pagliuca. 2 MR. PAGLIUCA: Your Honor, the problem, I think, is 3 that it is simply highlighting a specific piece of evidence; 4 that this is summation, essentially, and not witness testimony. 5 The witness has no personal knowledge of the phone calls. The 6 witness is simply comparing this to that, which is what should 7 be done in summation or should have been done with the witness 8 who actually was the testifying witness with the exhibit. 9 10 Ms. Hesse, for example. You have that message pad? Yes. 11 Compare that message pad with this particular record. Are 12 those the same phone numbers? I suppose that could happen. 13 Or with Carolyn, could have been asked, Is that your 14 phone number? Does that match the record? 15 This is simply an FBI agent who's going to take those 16 pieces of evidence selectively and then talk about them; this 17 matches this, this matches that. I don't believe that's 18 appropriate under 1006, which is, you know, the rule that 19 allows for summary exhibits, for example, but does not allow 20 for summary testimony of things that have already been admitted 21 into evidence. 22 Certainly in the government's closing argument they 23 can do this and they can make whatever arguments they want. 24 But this is simply a closing argument through a summary witness 25 in the middle of a trial before a very long break, and I just SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019133 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 10 of 49 1983 LC9VMAXT don't think it's appropriate under these circumstances. THE COURT: This agent, what was his role in the investigation? MS. MODE: Your Honor, this agent's role was limited to analyzing these records in preparation for trial. Your Honor, in particular because these exhibits contain identifying phone numbers and names, we feel more comfortable publishing these exhibits with an agent, as opposed to asking lay witnesses to review government exhibits for us in order to facilitate that testimony. Our preference is to publish this with an agent to do this carefully and thoughtfully so that we're able to publish the exhibits before the jury without exposing any identifying information. It's very streamlined testimony, your Honor. We're talking about exhibits the jury hasn't yet seen that haven't been published. It's not duplicative of anything that's already happened at the trial. And in particular, because closings will be maybe as long as two weeks from now, we think the jury should see these exhibits now; they have not yet been published. THE COURT: That's a little bit of the problem. Typically, in my experience, the summary agent witness is the agent who talks about what he did in the investigation, and that helps draw out complicated document comparators and the like, not somebody who's just effectively doing a mini SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013551 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 10 of 49 1983 LC9VMAXT don't think it's appropriate under these circumstances. THE COURT: This agent, what was his role in the investigation? MS. MODE: Your Honor, this agent's role was limited to analyzing these records in preparation for trial. Your Honor, in particular because these exhibits contain identifying phone numbers and names, we feel more comfortable publishing these exhibits with an agent, as opposed to asking lay witnesses to review government exhibits for us in order to facilitate that testimony. Our preference is to publish this with an agent to do this carefully and thoughtfully so that we're able to publish the exhibits before the jury without exposing any identifying information. It's very streamlined testimony, your Honor. We're talking about exhibits the jury hasn't yet seen that haven't been published. It's not duplicative of anything that's already happened at the trial. And in particular, because closings will be maybe as long as two weeks from now, we think the jury should see these exhibits now; they have not yet been published. THE COURT: That's a little bit of the problem. Typically, in my experience, the summary agent witness is the agent who talks about what he did in the investigation, and that helps draw out complicated document comparators and the like, not somebody who's just effectively doing a mini SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019134 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 11 of 49 1984 LC9VMAXT closing. MS. MODE: Your Honor, we often call summary witnesses who are not involved in the investigation who are just talking about their analysis of records. The purpose here isn't to have the summary witness talk through the investigation or investigative steps, but to talk about a review of exhibits. And I have called agents to do just that. THE COURT: But for the purposes of doing what 1006 permits, that's not what this is. I've seen it in two contexts: One, 1006 you've got a complicated, extensive set of records that are being summarized via a witness. And then you've got investigative summary witnesses who talk through factually what they did in a sense. And you're not doing either of those; you're providing essentially a closing argument or mini closing argument via a witness who has no personal involvement in the investigation and doing so, sounds like, with materials that don't require the type of 1006 summary. So you've created, I think, a little bit of a hybrid of certainly what I've seen those two exemplars, for them to be used. And so it just does sound like argument, summation, and the kind of thing that -- I mean, it's certainly true you could have done it with the witnesses. At some point I might have said, Save it for summation, counsel. But I can't say I've ever seen a version like this. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013552 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 11 of 49 1984 LC9VMAXT closing. MS. MODE: Your Honor, we often call summary witnesses who are not involved in the investigation who are just talking about their analysis of records. The purpose here isn't to have the summary witness talk through the investigation or investigative steps, but to talk about a review of exhibits. And I have called agents to do just that. THE COURT: But for the purposes of doing what 1006 permits, that's not what this is. I've seen it in two contexts: One, 1006 you've got a complicated, extensive set of records that are being summarized via a witness. And then you've got investigative summary witnesses who talk through factually what they did in a sense. And you're not doing either of those; you're providing essentially a closing argument or mini closing argument via a witness who has no personal involvement in the investigation and doing so, sounds like, with materials that don't require the type of 1006 summary. So you've created, I think, a little bit of a hybrid of certainly what I've seen those two exemplars, for them to be used. And so it just does sound like argument, summation, and the kind of thing that -- I mean, it's certainly true you could have done it with the witnesses. At some point I might have said, Save it for summation, counsel. But I can't say I've ever seen a version like this. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019135 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 12 of 49 1985 LC9VMAXT 1 MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. 2 I have in trials in this district called summary witnesses who helped publish and connect up facts across exhibits without creating summary charts under Rule 1006. I think this testimony -- 3 THE COURT: You're not offering him under 1006. 4 MS. MOE: That's correct, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: And he isn't involved in the investigation. 6 MS. MOE: That's correct, your Honor. 7 We'd just like an opportunity to publish these exhibits in a way that facilitates the jury seeing them without doing this through lay witnesses where there are complications about reading things out loud, so that it's streamlined and efficient so the jury can see the evidence that's been admitted. We think that's appropriate. 8 THE COURT: Why not just do it in closing? 9 MS. MOE: Your Honor, I think to rest our case and have the jury not see some of the evidence in this case, our preference would be -- 10 THE COURT: The one thing I've seen that it sounds like you're saying is actually not with a witness, but a bunch of documents come in, and then the government spends a little bit of time just publishing, publish this and publish that. 11 Again, I've never seen -- never seen -- an agent, a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013553 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 12 of 49 1985 LC9VMAXT 1 MS. MOE: Yes, your Honor. 2 I have in trials in this district called summary witnesses who helped publish and connect up facts across exhibits without creating summary charts under Rule 1006. I think this testimony -- 3 THE COURT: You're not offering him under 1006. 4 MS. MOE: That's correct, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: And he isn't involved in the investigation. 6 MS. MOE: That's correct, your Honor. 7 We'd just like an opportunity to publish these exhibits in a way that facilitates the jury seeing them without doing this through lay witnesses where there are complications about reading things out loud, so that it's streamlined and efficient so the jury can see the evidence that's been admitted. We think that's appropriate. 8 THE COURT: Why not just do it in closing? 9 MS. MOE: Your Honor, I think to rest our case and have the jury not see some of the evidence in this case, our preference would be -- 10 THE COURT: The one thing I've seen that it sounds like you're saying is actually not with a witness, but a bunch of documents come in, and then the government spends a little bit of time just publishing, publish this and publish that. 11 Again, I've never seen -- never seen -- an agent, a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 13 of 49 LC9VMAXT 1986 law enforcement agent, who had no involvement in the investigation of the case and who isn't providing testimony essentially pursuant to 1006. MS. MOE: Your Honor, if the Court's preference is for us to, without a person on the stand, just ask the jury to turn from one exhibit to another to another, we can do that. I think that is slightly more awkward than facilitating that through a witness and pointing out the connections between two things. THE COURT: Right. But the witness is providing testimony over which they have no personal knowledge. You're simply asking them to do the work of the government in the closing. So, Mr. Pagliuca, do you have any objection to the government publishing a few documents, going to a few points, and then we move on, without a witness? MR. PAGLIUCA: I don't understand that process, I guess, your Honor. We're simply going to -- is this with a witness or without a witness? THE COURT: Without a witness. MR. PAGLIUCA: We're simply going to say, The government would like the jury to look at this and then look at that? THE COURT: Yes. MR. PAGLIUCA: I do object to that process, your SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013554 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 13 of 49 1986 LC9VMAXT 1 law enforcement agent, who had no involvement in the 2 investigation of the case and who isn't providing testimony 3 essentially pursuant to 1006. 4 MS. MOE: Your Honor, if the Court's preference is for 5 us to, without a person on the stand, just ask the jury to turn 6 from one exhibit to another to another, we can do that. I 7 think that is slightly more awkward than facilitating that 8 through a witness and pointing out the connections between two 9 things. 10 THE COURT: Right. But the witness is providing 11 testimony over which they have no personal knowledge. You're 12 simply asking them to do the work of the government in the 13 closing. 14 So, Mr. Pagliuca, do you have any objection to the 15 government publishing a few documents, going to a few points, 16 and then we move on, without a witness? 17 MR. PAGLIUCA: I don't understand that process, I 18 guess, your Honor. We're simply going to -- is this with a 19 witness or without a witness? 20 THE COURT: Without a witness. 21 MR. PAGLIUCA: We're simply going to say, The 22 government would like the jury to look at this and then look at 23 that? 24 THE COURT: Yes. 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: I do object to that process, your SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019137 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 14 of 49 1987 LC9VMAXT 1 Honor. This is classically what someone would do in a closing argument. You can put this in a Power Point and put up a screen that shows this, and then put up a screen that shows that, and then make an argument about it. 2 And if they wanted to elicit this testimony, it should have been done, I believe, with a witness that then could be cross-examined substantively about what was being discussed. 3 This witness, Mr. -- if I'm saying it correctly, Mr. Buscemi, can't be cross-examined substantively about anything; all he's going to be able to say would be, I looked at this, and I looked at that, and I looked at this, I looked at that, and those are the exhibits. 4 So I guess I'm a little confused about the process, where one would just look at a jury and say, Look at this and then look at that. And I don't understand why that isn't, sort of, impermissibly highlighting certain pieces of evidence. And then, you know, am I allowed to get up and say, Why don't you look at this and why don't you look at that? It just seems rather awkward to me to be doing it in that fashion. 5 MS. MOE: Your Honor, that's why we propose doing this with a witness, to avoid any, sort of, awkwardness. But I don't understand the objection to publishing items that are in evidence that the jury has not yet seen. Again, our hope was for this to be very streamlined; but I understand the Court's concerns. 6 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013555 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 14 of 49 1987 LC9VMAXT 1 Honor. This is classically what someone would do in a closing argument. You can put this in a Power Point and put up a screen that shows this, and then put up a screen that shows that, and then make an argument about it. 2 And if they wanted to elicit this testimony, it should have been done, I believe, with a witness that then could be cross-examined substantively about what was being discussed. 3 This witness, Mr. -- if I'm saying it correctly, Mr. Buscemi, can't be cross-examined substantively about anything; all he's going to be able to say would be, I looked at this, and I looked at that, and I looked at this, I looked at that, and those are the exhibits. 4 So I guess I'm a little confused about the process, where one would just look at a jury and say, Look at this and then look at that. And I don't understand why that isn't, sort of, impermissibly highlighting certain pieces of evidence. And then, you know, am I allowed to get up and say, Why don't you look at this and why don't you look at that? It just seems rather awkward to me to be doing it in that fashion. 5 MS. MOE: Your Honor, that's why we propose doing this with a witness, to avoid any, sort of, awkwardness. But I don't understand the objection to publishing items that are in evidence that the jury has not yet seen. Again, our hope was for this to be very streamlined; but I understand the Court's concerns. 6 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019138 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 15 of 49 1988 LC9VMAXT 1 THE COURT: Right. It's a streamlined version of the 2 closing argument. And again, I'm not aware -- I'm not aware -- 3 certainly seen summary with investigative officers. That's not 4 this. And I've seen officers who are analyzing complicated 5 data under 1006 provide that to the jury. That's not this. 6 And I've seen, when the evidence comes in, the government spend 7 a fair amount of time -- as you've done with some exhibits -- 8 going through piece by piece in order to highlight and draw 9 certain connections. 10 I'm not going to let you do it through a witness who 11 has no personal experience. I think you do it in closing. 12 That's what this is, it's closing argument. 13 MS. MOE: Understood, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Okay. What else? 15 MR. PAGLIUCA: I think the only open issue that I'm 16 aware of, your Honor, is the Exhibit 52 issue. 17 THE COURT: Yes. I got the briefing at 9:45, so 15 18 minutes early finished, I appreciate it. And I am still 19 dotting my i's and crossing my t's. I think we don't need it 20 till the government is prepared to rest; is that right? 21 MS. COMEY: That's correct, your Honor. 22 THE COURT: You agree with that? 23 MR. PAGLIUCA: Yes, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Anything else to take up now? 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: Not from the defense, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013556 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 15 of 49 1988 LC9VMAXT 1 THE COURT: Right. It's a streamlined version of the 2 closing argument. And again, I'm not aware -- I'm not aware -- 3 certainly seen summary with investigative officers. That's not 4 this. And I've seen officers who are analyzing complicated 5 data under 1006 provide that to the jury. That's not this. 6 And I've seen, when the evidence comes in, the government spend 7 a fair amount of time -- as you've done with some exhibits -- 8 going through piece by piece in order to highlight and draw 9 certain connections. 10 I'm not going to let you do it through a witness who 11 has no personal experience. I think you do it in closing. 12 That's what this is, it's closing argument. 13 MS. MOE: Understood, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Okay. What else? 15 MR. PAGLIUCA: I think the only open issue that I'm 16 aware of, your Honor, is the Exhibit 52 issue. 17 THE COURT: Yes. I got the briefing at 9:45, so 15 18 minutes early finished, I appreciate it. And I am still 19 dotting my i's and crossing my t's. I think we don't need it 20 till the government is prepared to rest; is that right? 21 MS. COMEY: That's correct, your Honor. 22 THE COURT: You agree with that? 23 MR. PAGLIUCA: Yes, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Anything else to take up now? 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: Not from the defense, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019139 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 16 of 49 1989 LC9VMAXT 1 THE COURT: On scheduling, needless to say, I didn't send you a draft of the charge last night. I think my thinking is if the government rests today or tomorrow, which sounds like what we anticipate, I'll use the remainder of tomorrow, one, to hear the defense motions; and two, for me to work on the charge on my own, having already received your drafts. 2 And then I'll send it to you at some point in advance of a charging conference, which we'll do next week. And again, I'm open to you telling me whether you want to do it in the evenings after testimony or on Saturday. I think really the analysis there depends on what the defense now anticipates as the length of its case. 3 So are you in a position to give any additional estimate as to that? 4 MR. PAGLIUCA: We don't, your Honor. 5 I think we're hoping to take this evening and tomorrow to put those pieces together, and then provide the Court and the government with that analysis. 6 THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Sternheim. 7 MS. STERNHEIM: May I just say, I think it is our thinking at the moment that if we are going to be using the trial days, that our preference would be to Saturday for a charge conference. It seems that it would just be a more focused time. 8 THE COURT: I think really the only reason not to do 9 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013557 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 16 of 49 1989 LC9VMAXT 1 THE COURT: On scheduling, needless to say, I didn't send you a draft of the charge last night. I think my thinking is if the government rests today or tomorrow, which sounds like what we anticipate, I'll use the remainder of tomorrow, one, to hear the defense motions; and two, for me to work on the charge on my own, having already received your drafts. And then I'll send it to you at some point in advance of a charging conference, which we'll do next week. And again, I'm open to you telling me whether you want to do it in the evenings after testimony or on Saturday. I think really the analysis there depends on what the defense now anticipates as the length of its case. So are you in a position to give any additional estimate as to that? MR. PAGLIUCA: We don't, your Honor. I think we're hoping to take this evening and tomorrow to put those pieces together, and then provide the Court and the government with that analysis. THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Sternheim. MS. STERNHEIM: May I just say, I think it is our thinking at the moment that if we are going to be using the trial days, that our preference would be to Saturday for a charge conference. It seems that it would just be a more focused time. THE COURT: I think really the only reason not to do SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019140 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 17 of 49 1990 LC9VMAXT 1 that -- and, as I said, I wanted to have agreement from both 2 sides on it. But the reason not to do that would be if we 3 might get to closings before the following Monday. And that's 4 why it's really -- because if we will get to closings before 5 the following Monday, the charge needs to be done before then. 6 MS. STERNHEIM: Of course. And we will update the 7 government and the Court with regard to scheduling. 8 THE COURT: Okay. 9 So I think if there's a chance that the defense either 10 won't put on a case or would rest before Friday, then we should 11 do the charge conference Thursday night. So that's the 12 question. 13 MR. PAGLIUCA: Understood, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Okay. 15 Does the government have any preference or views on 16 that? 17 MR. ROHRBACH: The government has no preference. That 18 makes sense to us. Thank you, your Honor. 19 THE COURT: Okay. Great. Yes. 20 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, in connection with the defense 21 case, I do think there's still the outstanding issue of the 22 subpoena to Mr. Glassman. 23 THE COURT: Yes. I was looking at that last night as 24 well. And I have a question and a little bit of a proposal, 25 see if we can get back to a magical moment. It's a difficult SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013558 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 17 of 49 1990 LC9VMAXT 1 that -- and, as I said, I wanted to have agreement from both 2 sides on it. But the reason not to do that would be if we 3 might get to closings before the following Monday. And that's 4 why it's really -- because if we will get to closings before 5 the following Monday, the charge needs to be done before then. 6 MS. STERNHEIM: Of course. And we will update the 7 government and the Court with regard to scheduling. 8 THE COURT: Okay. 9 So I think if there's a chance that the defense either 10 won't put on a case or would rest before Friday, then we should 11 do the charge conference Thursday night. So that's the 12 question. 13 MR. PAGLIUCA: Understood, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Okay. 15 Does the government have any preference or views on 16 that? 17 MR. ROHRBACH: The government has no preference. That 18 makes sense to us. Thank you, your Honor. 19 THE COURT: Okay. Great. Yes. 20 MS. COMEY: Your Honor, in connection with the defense 21 case, I do think there's still the outstanding issue of the 22 subpoena to Mr. Glassman. 23 THE COURT: Yes. I was looking at that last night as 24 well. And I have a question and a little bit of a proposal, 25 see if we can get back to a magical moment. It's a difficult SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 18 of 49 1991 LC9VMAXT 1 issue and it's close, I'll admit, based on where I am now. I think it's close. 2 3 But what I'm wondering is if what the defense essentially needs to make the arguments it wants to make is testimony from Mr. Glassman that he told the government that he told Jane that some form of cooperation or testimony would help her case. That question might have some evidentiary issues, 4 5 but it's not an attorney-client privilege issue. 6 7 I think the answer to that question basically gets the defense what it's looking for without infringing on attorney-client privilege. And so I'd like you to consider a proposal in which the testimony that you're seeking is limited to that and, depending on the parties' views and Mr. Glassman's views, if that is the limit of the testimony, whether it could be through stipulation. 8 9 So you'll consider that. 10 11 MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. 12 MR. PAGLIUCA: We will, your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Okay. All right. 14 Anything else I can take up? 15 We're checking on our jurors. 16 MR. EVERDELL: Nothing from the defense, your Honor. 17 THE COURT: I'm sorry. 18 So you put in the letters to me last night on 52. 19 You'll docket those today? 20 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013559 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 18 of 49 1991 LC9VMAXT issue and it's close, I'll admit, based on where I am now. I think it's close. But what I'm wondering is if what the defense essentially needs to make the arguments it wants to make is testimony from Mr. Glassman that he told the government that he told Jane that some form of cooperation or testimony would help her case. That question might have some evidentiary issues, but it's not an attorney-client privilege issue. I think the answer to that question basically gets the defense what it's looking for without infringing on attorney-client privilege. And so I'd like you to consider a proposal in which the testimony that you're seeking is limited to that and, depending on the parties' views and Mr. Glassman's views, if that is the limit of the testimony, whether it could be through stipulation. So you'll consider that. MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. MR. PAGLIUCA: We will, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. All right. Anything else I can take up? We're checking on our jurors. MR. EVERDELL: Nothing from the defense, your Honor. THE COURT: I'm sorry. So you put in the letters to me last night on 52. You'll docket those today? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 19 of 49 1992 LC9VMAXT 1 MR. ROHRBACH: Yes, your Honor. The government has a few proposed redactions to its letter; so we will propose those redactions and docket a version that implements those redactions subject to the Court's ruling on them. 2 THE COURT: Okay. Remember, my basic view is get it on the docket and then propose your redactions so that I'm not -- put it on the docket with your proposed redactions and I'll let you know if it should be redacted less. 3 MR. ROHRBACH: Yes, your Honor. And we will do that today. 4 THE COURT: Okay. And same for -- I think you were just waiting to see if the government had proposed redactions, is that -- 5 MR. PAGLIUCA: That's correct, your Honor. 6 I think we can mirror the government's redactions. I have to just think about whether the Exhibit A, I think it was, that was attached and then responded to, I think we need to think about how that gets redacted. And I think likely my view would be the entirety of it gets redacted. 7 THE COURT: Okay. I will consider that. 8 Anything else? 9 MR. ROHRBACH: Nothing from the government. 10 MR. EVERDELL: No, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: All right. We're missing a couple jurors, but I suspect they'll be here soon. 12 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 19 of 49 1992 LC9VMAXT 1 MR. ROHRBACH: Yes, your Honor. The government has a few proposed redactions to its letter; so we will propose those redactions and docket a version that implements those redactions subject to the Court's ruling on them. 2 THE COURT: Okay. Remember, my basic view is get it on the docket and then propose your redactions so that I'm not -- put it on the docket with your proposed redactions and I'll let you know if it should be redacted less. 3 MR. ROHRBACH: Yes, your Honor. And we will do that today. 4 THE COURT: Okay. And same for -- I think you were just waiting to see if the government had proposed redactions, is that -- 5 MR. PAGLIUCA: That's correct, your Honor. 6 I think we can mirror the government's redactions. I have to just think about whether the Exhibit A, I think it was, that was attached and then responded to, I think we need to think about how that gets redacted. And I think likely my view would be the entirety of it gets redacted. 7 THE COURT: Okay. I will consider that. 8 Anything else? 9 MR. ROHRBACH: Nothing from the government. 10 MR. EVERDELL: No, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: All right. We're missing a couple jurors, but I suspect they'll be here soon. 12 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 13 DOJ-OGR-00019143 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 20 of 49 1993 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct 1 We'll take a break and start as soon as they're here. 2 Thank you. 3 (Recess) 4 THE COURT: Anything to take up before we bring in the 5 jury? 6 MR. ROHRBACH: Nothing from the government, your 7 Honor. 8 MR. EVERDELL: Nothing from the defense, your Honor. 9 THE COURT: Okay. We'll bring in the jury please. 10 (Jury present) 11 THE COURT: Good morning, members of the jury. 12 Hope you had a good of evening. Thank you again for 13 your continued diligence, punctuality, and patience. 14 Mr. Rohrbach, the government may call its next 15 witness. 16 MR. ROHRBACH: The government calls Tracy Chapell. 17 THE COURT: Tracy Chapell may come forward. 18 TRACY CHAPELL, 19 called as a witness by the Government, 20 having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 21 THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Chapell. 22 Mr. Rohrbach, you may inquire. 23 DIRECT EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. ROHRBACH: 25 Q. Good morning, Ms. Chapell. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013561 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 20 of 49 1993 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct 1 We'll take a break and start as soon as they're here. 2 Thank you. 3 (Recess) 4 THE COURT: Anything to take up before we bring in the 5 jury? 6 MR. ROHRBACH: Nothing from the government, your 7 Honor. 8 MR. EVERDELL: Nothing from the defense, your Honor. 9 THE COURT: Okay. We'll bring in the jury please. 10 (Jury present) 11 THE COURT: Good morning, members of the jury. 12 Hope you had a good of evening. Thank you again for 13 your continued diligence, punctuality, and patience. 14 Mr. Rohrbach, the government may call its next 15 witness. 16 MR. ROHRBACH: The government calls Tracy Chapell. 17 THE COURT: Tracy Chapell may come forward. 18 TRACY CHAPELL, 19 called as a witness by the Government, 20 having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 21 THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Chapell. 22 Mr. Rohrbach, you may inquire. 23 DIRECT EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. ROHRBACH: 25 Q. Good morning, Ms. Chapell. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019144 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 21 of 49 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct 1994 1 A. Good morning. 2 Q. Ms. Chapell, where do you work? 3 A. Federal Express Corporation. 4 Q. How long have you worked there? 5 A. One year. 6 Q. What's your position at Federal Express? 7 A. Senior paralegal. 8 THE COURT: Mr. Rohrbach, could you pull the mic up a 9 little please. Thank you. 10 MR. ROHRBACH: Of course. I apologize, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: Thank you. 12 Q. And what are your duties and responsibilities as a senior paralegal at FedEx? 13 A. To respond to subpoenas and produce the records of Federal 14 Express. 15 Q. And as part of your job, are you familiar with Federal 16 Express's recordkeeping practices? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. In particular, are you familiar with the business practices 19 regarding billing invoices? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. How are billing invoices generated? 22 A. They are generated through the scanning events and then 23 populated through the revenue service department. 24 Q. Can you explain what you mean by scanning events? 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013562 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 21 of 49 1994 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct 1 A. Good morning. 2 Q. Ms. Chapell, where do you work? 3 A. Federal Express Corporation. 4 Q. How long have you worked there? 5 A. One year. 6 Q. What's your position at Federal Express? 7 A. Senior paralegal. 8 THE COURT: Mr. Rohrbach, could you pull the mic up a 9 little please. Thank you. 10 MR. ROHRBACH: Of course. I apologize, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: Thank you. 12 Q. And what are your duties and responsibilities as a senior paralegal at FedEx? 13 A. To respond to subpoenas and produce the records of Federal 14 Express. 15 Q. And as part of your job, are you familiar with Federal 16 Express's recordkeeping practices? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. In particular, are you familiar with the business practices 19 regarding billing invoices? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. How are billing invoices generated? 22 A. They are generated through the scanning events and then 23 populated through the revenue service department. 24 Q. Can you explain what you mean by scanning events? 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019145 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 22 of 49 1995 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct 1 A. Well, each movement of the package is scanned so it can be tracked through the system as to where the package is. Once it meets the final delivery spot, then that final scan will generate an invoice. 5 Q. What sort of information is contained in an invoice? 6 A. The account number, the invoice number, the invoice date, the account holder information, and the amount of the shipment. 8 Q. Does FedEx keep billing invoices in the ordinary course of business? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And is making invoices a regular practice of FedEx? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Ms. Chapell, in the binder next to you, would you please look at what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 801. 16 Do you recognize this? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What is it? 19 A. It's an invoice on Jeffrey E. Epstein's account. 20 Q. Have you reviewed this before today? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Is it a fair and accurate copy of an invoice held by FedEx? 23 A. Yes. 24 MR. ROHRBACH: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 801 under seal to protect third-party and 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013563 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 22 of 49 1995 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct 1 A. Well, each movement of the package is scanned so it can be tracked through the system as to where the package is. Once it meets the final delivery spot, then that final scan will generate an invoice. 5 Q. What sort of information is contained in an invoice? 6 A. The account number, the invoice number, the invoice date, 7 the account holder information, and the amount of the shipment. 8 Q. Does FedEx keep billing invoices in the ordinary course of 9 business? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And is making invoices a regular practice of FedEx? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Ms. Chapell, in the binder next to you, would you please 14 look at what's been marked for identification as Government 15 Exhibit 801. 16 Do you recognize this? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What is it? 19 A. It's an invoice on Jeffrey E. Epstein's account. 20 Q. Have you reviewed this before today? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Is it a fair and accurate copy of an invoice held by FedEx? 23 A. Yes. 24 MR. ROHRBACH: Your Honor, the government offers 25 Government Exhibit 801 under seal to protect third-party and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019146 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 23 of 49 1996 LC9MAXT Chapell - direct pseudonym-protected witnesses, and Government Exhibit 801-R not under seal. MR. EVERDELL: No objection. THE COURT: All right. GX-801 is admitted under seal for the reason indicated. And 801-R is admitted as a public exhibit. (Government's Exhibits 801, 801-R received in evidence) BY MR. ROHRBACH: Q. Ms. Chapell, would you turn to Government Exhibit 802, what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 802 in your binder. A. Okay. Q. And do you recognize this? A. Yes. Q. What is it? A. Invoice on Jeffrey E. Epstein's account. Q. Have you reviewed this before today? A. Yes. Q. And is it a fair and accurate copy of the version held by FedEx? A. Yes. MR. ROHRBACH: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 802 under seal for the same reasons, and Government Exhibit 802-R without any sealing. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013564 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 23 of 49 1996 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct pseudonym-protected witnesses, and Government Exhibit 801-R not under seal. MR. EVERDELL: No objection. THE COURT: All right. GX-801 is admitted under seal for the reason indicated. And 801-R is admitted as a public exhibit. (Government's Exhibits 801, 801-R received in evidence) BY MR. ROHRBACH: Q. Ms. Chapell, would you turn to Government Exhibit 802, what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 802 in your binder. A. Okay. Q. And do you recognize this? A. Yes. Q. What is it? A. Invoice on Jeffrey E. Epstein's account. Q. Have you reviewed this before today? A. Yes. Q. And is it a fair and accurate copy of the version held by FedEx? A. Yes. MR. ROHRBACH: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 802 under seal for the same reasons, and Government Exhibit 802-R without any sealing. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019147 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 24 of 49 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct MR. EVERDELL: No objection. THE COURT: All right. 802 is admitted under seal for the reason indicated. 802-R is admitted as a public exhibit. (Government's Exhibits 802, 802-R received in evidence) BY MR. ROHRBACH: Q. And finally, Ms. Chapell, would you turn to what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 803. A. Okay. Q. Do you recognize this? A. Yes. Q. And what is it? A. Invoice on Jeffrey E. Epstein's account. Q. Have you reviewed it before today? A. Yes. Q. And is this a fair and accurate copy of the version held by Federal Express? A. Yes. MR. ROHRBACH: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 803 under seal for the same reasons, and Government Exhibit 803-R to the public. MR. EVERDELL: No objection. THE COURT: GX-803 is admitted under seal; 803-R is admitted as a public exhibit. (Government's Exhibits 803, 803-R received in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013565 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 24 of 49 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct MR. EVERDELL: No objection. THE COURT: All right. 802 is admitted under seal for the reason indicated. 802-R is admitted as a public exhibit. (Government's Exhibits 802, 802-R received in evidence) BY MR. ROHRBACH: Q. And finally, Ms. Chapell, would you turn to what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 803. A. Okay. Q. Do you recognize this? A. Yes. Q. And what is it? A. Invoice on Jeffrey E. Epstein's account. Q. Have you reviewed it before today? A. Yes. Q. And is this a fair and accurate copy of the version held by Federal Express? A. Yes. MR. ROHRBACH: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 803 under seal for the same reasons, and Government Exhibit 803-R to the public. MR. EVERDELL: No objection. THE COURT: GX-803 is admitted under seal; 803-R is admitted as a public exhibit. (Government's Exhibits 803, 803-R received in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019148 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 25 of 49 1998 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct evidence) 1 MR. ROHRBACH: With your Honor's permission, may I publish the documents? 2 THE COURT: Yes, you may publish the R versions. 3 MR. ROHRBACH: Yes. 4 Ms. Drescher, will you please pull up Government 5 Exhibit 801-R for everyone. 6 BY MR. ROHRBACH: 7 Q. Ms. Chapell, would you please turn to Government Exhibit 8 801 in your binder. 9 MR. ROHRBACH: And with the Court's permission, I 10 would ask that the jury be instructed to turn to Exhibit 801 in 11 their binders. 12 THE COURT: Okay. Is it the large binder? 13 MR. ROHRBACH: My understanding, there's one binder. 14 THE COURT: Okay. The only binder, 801 -- GX-801, 15 please. 16 Q. Now that we're looking at it, Ms. Chapell, who is the 17 account holder on this invoice? 18 A. Jeffrey E. Epstein. 19 Q. And turning now to page 5 of the invoice and looking at the 20 top row of the invoice. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. Who is the sender of this package? 23 A. S. Kellen, and underneath it's Jeffrey E. Epstein. 24 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013566 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 25 of 49 1998 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct evidence) 1 MR. ROHRBACH: With your Honor's permission, may I publish the documents? 2 THE COURT: Yes, you may publish the R versions. 3 MR. ROHRBACH: Yes. 4 Ms. Drescher, will you please pull up Government 5 Exhibit 801-R for everyone. 6 BY MR. ROHRBACH: 7 Q. Ms. Chapell, would you please turn to Government Exhibit 8 801 in your binder. 9 MR. ROHRBACH: And with the Court's permission, I 10 would ask that the jury be instructed to turn to Exhibit 801 in 11 their binders. 12 THE COURT: Okay. Is it the large binder? 13 MR. ROHRBACH: My understanding, there's one binder. 14 THE COURT: Okay. The only binder, 801 -- GX-801, 15 please. 16 Q. Now that we're looking at it, Ms. Chapell, who is the 17 account holder on this invoice? 18 A. Jeffrey E. Epstein. 19 Q. And turning now to page 5 of the invoice and looking at the 20 top row of the invoice. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. Who is the sender of this package? 23 A. S. Kellen, and underneath it's Jeffrey E. Epstein. 24 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019149 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 26 of 49 1999 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct 1 Q. And what is the sender address? 2 A. It is 457 Madison Avenue, New York, New York, 10022. 3 Q. And without saying any names, without saying the last name 4 of the recipient, what is the first name of the recipient? 5 A. Carolyn. 6 Q. And where is the city and State of the delivery? 7 A. West Palm Beach, Florida. 8 Q. Thank you. 9 MR. ROHRBACH: And with the Court's permission, I 10 would ask the jurors to hold their place here and turn to 11 Government Exhibit 11 for a moment, which is in evidence. 12 MR. EVERDELL: No objection. 13 THE COURT: All right. 14 Please look at GX-11, and then turn back to this page. 15 MR. ROHRBACH: And on GX-11 we would direct the jury's 16 attention to the date of birth. 17 THE COURT: Okay. Okay. 18 So you've looked at GX-11. 19 And then you'll go back to GX-803. 20 MR. ROHRBACH: 801, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: I'm sorry. 801. Apologies. 22 BY MR. ROHRBACH: 23 Q. Ms. Chapell, what is the date that this package was sent? 24 A. It was picked up to be shipped on December 3rd, 2002. 25 Q. Keeping in mind the recipient's address, Ms. Chapell, I'd SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013567 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 26 of 49 1999 LC9VMAXT Chapell - direct 1 Q. And what is the sender address? 2 A. It is 457 Madison Avenue, New York, New York, 10022. 3 Q. And without saying any names, without saying the last name 4 of the recipient, what is the first name of the recipient? 5 A. Carolyn. 6 Q. And where is the city and State of the delivery? 7 A. West Palm Beach, Florida. 8 Q. Thank you. 9 MR. ROHRBACH: And with the Court's permission, I 10 would ask the jurors to hold their place here and turn to 11 Government Exhibit 11 for a moment, which is in evidence. 12 MR. EVERDELL: No objection. 13 THE COURT: All right. 14 Please look at GX-11, and then turn back to this page. 15 MR. ROHRBACH: And on GX-11 we would direct the jury's 16 attention to the date of birth. 17 THE COURT: Okay. Okay. 18 So you've looked at GX-11. 19 And then you'll go back to GX-803. 20 MR. ROHRBACH: 801, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: I'm sorry. 801. Apologies. 22 BY MR. ROHRBACH: 23 Q. Ms. Chapell, what is the date that this package was sent? 24 A. It was picked up to be shipped on December 3rd, 2002. 25 Q. Keeping in mind the recipient's address, Ms. Chapell, I'd SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019150 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 27 of 49 2000 LC9VMAXT Chappell - direct like to turn to Government Exhibit 802 and to the eighth page. And looking at the middle row, does the recipient have the same address as the recipient we were just looking at? A. Yes. MR. ROHRBACH: Your Honor, if they haven't already done so, we'd ask the jury to turn to Government Exhibit 802. THE COURT: Okay. Please turn to GX-802. Q. Ms. Chapell, directing your attention to the middle row on this page, who is the sender of this package? A. J. Epstein. Q. And what is the address? A. 457 Madison Avenue, New York, New York. Q. And would you spell the first name of the recipient here? A. C-A-R-D-I-N-E. Q. And what is the city and state? A. West Palm Beach, Florida. Q. On what date was this package sent? A. December 12th, 2002. MR. ROHRBACH: And finally, your Honor, I would like to turn the jurors' attention to Government Exhibit 803. THE COURT: Okay. You may turn to 803, please. Q. And Ms. Chapell, if you would please do the same. And turning to page 6 of this document and directing your attention to the bottom row, Ms. Chapell, who is the sender of this package? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013568 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 27 of 49 2000 LC9VMAXT Chappell - direct like to turn to Government Exhibit 802 and to the eighth page. And looking at the middle row, does the recipient have the same address as the recipient we were just looking at? A. Yes. MR. ROHRBACH: Your Honor, if they haven't already done so, we'd ask the jury to turn to Government Exhibit 802. THE COURT: Okay. Please turn to GX-802. Q. Ms. Chapell, directing your attention to the middle row on this page, who is the sender of this package? A. J. Epstein. Q. And what is the address? A. 457 Madison Avenue, New York, New York. Q. And would you spell the first name of the recipient here? A. C-A-R-D-I-N-E. Q. And what is the city and state? A. West Palm Beach, Florida. Q. On what date was this package sent? A. December 12th, 2002. MR. ROHRBACH: And finally, your Honor, I would like to turn the jurors' attention to Government Exhibit 803. THE COURT: Okay. You may turn to 803, please. Q. And Ms. Chapell, if you would please do the same. And turning to page 6 of this document and directing your attention to the bottom row, Ms. Chapell, who is the sender of this package? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019151 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 28 of 49 2001 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 A. Cecilia Steen. 2 Q. Are there any other names listed? 3 A. Yes, Jeffrey E. Epstein. 4 Q. What is the shipping address? 5 A. 457 Madison Avenue, New York, New York. 6 Q. Without saying the last name, what is the first name of the recipient? 7 A. Caroline. 8 Q. What is the city and state of the recipient? 9 A. West Palm Beach, Florida. 10 Q. What is the date of this package? 11 A. October 7th, 2002. 12 Q. Thank you. 13 MR. ROHRBACH: No further questions, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Everdell. 15 MR. EVERDELL: Thank you, your Honor. 16 THE COURT: You may put your binders down. Thank you. 17 MR. EVERDELL: May I inquire, your Honor? 18 THE COURT: You may. 19 20 CROSS-EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. EVERDELL: 22 Q. Good morning, Ms. Chapell. 23 A. Good morning. 24 Q. You just testified about a few invoices from Federal 25 Express that were provided to you by the government; is that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013569 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 28 of 49 2001 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 A. Cecilia Steen. 2 Q. Are there any other names listed? 3 A. Yes, Jeffrey E. Epstein. 4 Q. What is the shipping address? 5 A. 457 Madison Avenue, New York, New York. 6 Q. Without saying the last name, what is the first name of the recipient? 7 8 A. Caroline. 9 Q. What is the city and state of the recipient? 10 A. West Palm Beach, Florida. 11 Q. What is the date of this package? 12 A. October 7th, 2002. 13 Q. Thank you. 14 MR. ROHRBACH: No further questions, your Honor. 15 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Everdell. 16 MR. EVERDELL: Thank you, your Honor. 17 THE COURT: You may put your binders down. Thank you. 18 MR. EVERDELL: May I inquire, your Honor? 19 THE COURT: You may. 20 CROSS-EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. EVERDELL: 22 Q. Good morning, Ms. Chapell. 23 A. Good morning. 24 Q. You just testified about a few invoices from Federal 25 Express that were provided to you by the government; is that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019152 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 29 of 49 2002 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross right? A. Correct. Q. And you testified that they were associated with a FedEx account of Jeffrey Epstein, right? A. Yes. Q. And all of those -- three of those invoices that we just looked at, Government's Exhibit 801, 802, and 803, were from the last few months of 2002; is that right? A. Yes. Q. And those invoices each showed shipments for roughly a few week to a month period of time, right? A. Correct. Q. I just want to look at a few of those invoices that we looked at. I'm going to start with Government's Exhibit 803, and I'm going to direct your attention to page 6 of 9. MR. EVERDELL: With the Court's permission, I'll have the jurors look in the same binder at Government's 803. THE COURT: Yes. Members of the jury, please look at GX-803. MR. EVERDELL: And just directing the jurors' attention to page 6 of 9. THE COURT: Page 6. Okay. 803, page 6. MR. EVERDELL: Actually, I apologize. If we can just first start with page 1 just so we can orient ourselves. THE COURT: Okay. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013570 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 29 of 49 2002 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross right? A. Correct. Q. And you testified that they were associated with a FedEx account of Jeffrey Epstein, right? A. Yes. Q. And all of those -- three of those invoices that we just looked at, Government's Exhibit 801, 802, and 803, were from the last few months of 2002; is that right? A. Yes. Q. And those invoices each showed shipments for roughly a few week to a month period of time, right? A. Correct. Q. I just want to look at a few of those invoices that we looked at. I'm going to start with Government's Exhibit 803, and I'm going to direct your attention to page 6 of 9. MR. EVERDELL: With the Court's permission, I'll have the jurors look in the same binder at Government's 803. THE COURT: Yes. Members of the jury, please look at GX-803. MR. EVERDELL: And just directing the jurors' attention to page 6 of 9. THE COURT: Page 6. Okay. 803, page 6. MR. EVERDELL: Actually, I apologize. If we can just first start with page 1 just so we can orient ourselves. THE COURT: Okay. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019153 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 30 of 49 2003 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 BY MR. EVERDELL: 2 Q. So, Ms. Chapell, if you look at page 1. So we're looking here on Government's Exhibit 803-R at the invoice dated October 14th, 2002, right? 3 4 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And as you said before, this is an invoice that's associated with an account, the FedEx account of Jeffrey Epstein, right? 7 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And if you look up at that top left-hand corner, you see the billing account shipping address, right? 10 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And it says Jeffrey E. Epstein, 457 Madison Avenue, New York, New York, 10022, right? 13 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. That's the address associated with this account for billing purposes, right? 16 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Now, I want you to skip to the page I mentioned before, page 6 of 9. All right. Now, I think if you look down at the last transaction on that page, that's a shipment that was sent out or was picked up for shipment on October 7th of 2002, right? 19 20 21 22 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And do you see the information that's over on the left-hand 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013571 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 30 of 49 2003 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 BY MR. EVERDELL: 2 Q. So, Ms. Chapell, if you look at page 1. So we're looking here on Government's Exhibit 803-R at the invoice dated October 14th, 2002, right? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And as you said before, this is an invoice that's associated with an account, the FedEx account of Jeffrey Epstein, right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And if you look up at that top left-hand corner, you see the billing account shipping address, right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And it says Jeffrey E. Epstein, 457 Madison Avenue, New York, New York, 10022, right? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. That's the address associated with this account for billing purposes, right? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Now, I want you to skip to the page I mentioned before, page 6 of 9. All right. Now, I think if you look down at the last transaction on that page, that's a shipment that was sent out or was picked up for shipment on October 7th of 2002, right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And do you see the information that's over on the left-hand SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019154 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 31 of 49 2004 LC9MAXT Chapell - cross side under the heading "Sender"? Q. 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. That information says Cecilia Steen; is that right? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And it has then Jeffrey E. Epstein and the address 457 5 Madison Avenue, right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And that is the information that is present on the FedEx 8 slip that goes with the package, right? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. So whatever information is filled out on the slip that gets 11 attached to the FedEx package is what appears under "Sender," 12 right? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Okay. And you see that this, the recipient here -- and I'm 15 not asking you to say her full name, but the first name of the 16 recipient here is Caroline; is that right? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And I think you mentioned the city and state, is that 19 right, of where this was going? 20 MR. EVERDELL: May I confer? 21 THE COURT: Yes. 22 (Counsel conferred) 23 Q. You said that this was going to West Palm Beach, Florida, 24 right? 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013572 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 31 of 49 2004 LC9MAXT Chapell - cross 1 side under the heading "Sender"? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. That information says Cecilia Steen; is that right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And it has then Jeffrey E. Epstein and the address 457 6 Madison Avenue, right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And that is the information that is present on the FedEx 9 slip that goes with the package, right? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. So whatever information is filled out on the slip that gets 12 attached to the FedEx package is what appears under "Sender," 13 right? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Okay. And you see that this, the recipient here -- and I'm 16 not asking you to say her full name, but the first name of the 17 recipient here is Caroline; is that right? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And I think you mentioned the city and state, is that 20 right, of where this was going? 21 MR. EVERDELL: May I confer? 22 THE COURT: Yes. 23 (Counsel conferred) 24 Q. You said that this was going to West Palm Beach, Florida, 25 right? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019155 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 32 of 49 2005 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. Okay. And I just want to refer back to the sender though, okay. That sender says that the package was sent by Cecilia Steen; correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. It goes without saying that Cecilia Steen is not Ghislaine Maxwell; correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. Okay. And that is the only transaction on this invoice that the government showed you to discuss in your direct testimony, right? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. I want to show you another transaction on this invoice. If you can go to page 7 of 9. 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. And I want to show you the transaction in the middle of the page, the middle of the three. Do you see that one? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. That is also a shipment that was picked up for shipment the same day, October 7th of 2002, right? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And that is the same day as the package we just looked at that was sent by Cecilia Steen on the page before, isn't it? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. All right. Well, looking at this one, you see the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013573 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 32 of 49 2005 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. Okay. And I just want to refer back to the sender though, okay. That sender says that the package was sent by Cecilia Steen; correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. It goes without saying that Cecilia Steen is not Ghislaine Maxwell; correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. Okay. And that is the only transaction on this invoice that the government showed you to discuss in your direct testimony, right? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. I want to show you another transaction on this invoice. If you can go to page 7 of 9. 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. And I want to show you the transaction in the middle of the page, the middle of the three. Do you see that one? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. That is also a shipment that was picked up for shipment the same day, October 7th of 2002, right? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And that is the same day as the package we just looked at that was sent by Cecilia Steen on the page before, isn't it? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. All right. Well, looking at this one, you see the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019156 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 33 of 49 2006 LC9MAXT Chapell - cross 1 recipient there is one named Casey Wasserman, right? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And you see the sender information on this shipment; 4 correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And the sender there is listed as Ghislaine Maxwell; is 7 that right? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And then, of course, there's the information below, Jeffrey 10 Epstein, 457 Madison Avenue. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. It goes without saying that -- well, I shouldn't say 13 "goes without saying." 14 There is no other transaction or there is no 15 transaction on this invoice we're looking at where someone 16 named Ghislaine Maxwell is sending a package to anyone named 17 Carolyn; correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Okay. Let's look at the next one. This is government's 801. 20 And I'm doing this because I believe this goes 21 chronologically in order, right. The one we just looked at was 22 October, right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. So let's look at 801. 25 MR. VERDELL: And the jurors can do the same, with SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013574 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 33 of 49 2006 LC9MAXT Chapell - cross recipient there is one named Casey Wasserman, right? A. Correct. Q. And you see the sender information on this shipment; correct? A. Correct. Q. And the sender there is listed as Ghislaine Maxwell; is that right? A. Correct. Q. And then, of course, there's the information below, Jeffrey Epstein, 457 Madison Avenue. A. Yes. Q. Okay. It goes without saying that -- well, I shouldn't say "goes without saying." There is no other transaction or there is no transaction on this invoice we're looking at where someone named Ghislaine Maxwell is sending a package to anyone named Carolyn; correct? A. Correct. Q. Okay. Let's look at the next one. This is government's 801. And I'm doing this because I believe this goes chronologically in order, right. The one we just looked at was October, right? A. Yes. Q. So let's look at 801. MR. VERDELL: And the jurors can do the same, with SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019157 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 34 of 49 2007 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross the Court's permission. THE COURT: Yes. Q. And we'll go to the first page of 801-R. So, Ms. Chapell, do you have that? A. Yes. Q. So this is an invoice from December 16th of 2002, right? A. Yes. Q. So that's just roughly two months after the invoice we just saw? A. Yes. Q. And it's the same billing information, it's the same account we're looking at? A. Yes. Q. That's the account of Jeffrey Epstein at 457 Madison Avenue, right? A. Correct. Q. All right. Let's take a look at page 5. Do you have that page, Ms. Chapell? A. Yes. Q. All right. This is the transaction that you were shown by the government to discuss, right? A. Yes. Q. And this shows a shipment that was picked up for shipment, FedEx package that was picked up for shipment on December 3rd of 2002, right? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013575 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 34 of 49 2007 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross the Court's permission. THE COURT: Yes. Q. And we'll go to the first page of 801-R. So, Ms. Chapell, do you have that? A. Yes. Q. So this is an invoice from December 16th of 2002, right? A. Yes. Q. So that's just roughly two months after the invoice we just saw? A. Yes. Q. And it's the same billing information, it's the same account we're looking at? A. Yes. Q. That's the account of Jeffrey Epstein at 457 Madison Avenue, right? A. Correct. Q. All right. Let's take a look at page 5. Do you have that page, Ms. Chapell? A. Yes. Q. All right. This is the transaction that you were shown by the government to discuss, right? A. Yes. Q. And this shows a shipment that was picked up for shipment, FedEx package that was picked up for shipment on December 3rd of 2002, right? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019158 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 35 of 49 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And here the recipient -- again, I'm just going to use first names here. The recipient is Carolyn, right? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. That was going to West Palm Beach, Florida, as well? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. All right. But you see over at the sender information; correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. The sender is listed as S. Kellen, right? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Do you know who S. Kellen is? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. Safe to say that S. Kellen is not Ghislaine Maxwell, right? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. Now, you were shown this transaction by the government, right? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. I want to point you to a different transaction in the same invoice. 17 MR. EVERDELL: If we can go to page 6, the next page. 18 Q. And I want you to look at the bottom of that page, the last transaction. 19 A. Okay. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013576 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 35 of 49 2008 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And here the recipient -- again, I'm just going to use first names here. The recipient is Carolyn, right? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. That was going to West Palm Beach, Florida, as well? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. All right. But you see over at the sender information; correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. The sender is listed as S. Kellen, right? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Do you know who S. Kellen is? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. Safe to say that S. Kellen is not Ghislaine Maxwell, right? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. Now, you were shown this transaction by the government, right? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. I want to point you to a different transaction in the same invoice. 17 MR. EVERDELL: If we can go to page 6, the next page. 18 Q. And I want you to look at the bottom of that page, the last transaction. 19 A. Okay. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019159 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 36 of 49 2009 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 Q. That is a shipment, a FedEx package that was picked up for shipment on December 9th, 2002, right? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And you see that the recipient of that package is someone named Lisa Anasrons is how it's spelled? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And the sender of that is G. Maxwell; correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. And safe to say that this is not a package going to anybody named Carolyn, right? 8 A. It is not. 9 Q. It's going to Lisa Anasrons, whoever that may be, right? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Okay. Let's look at another one from this invoice, page 8. I'll ask you to look at both of these transactions, if we could. These are both FedEx packages that were picked up for shipment on December 10th of 2002; correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And if we look at the first one, the recipient there is listed there as Isabel Maxwell? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And the sender is G. Maxwell? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And if you look down at the next one, the recipient there is Ron Burckle, right? 18 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013577 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 36 of 49 2009 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 Q. That is a shipment, a FedEx package that was picked up for shipment on December 9th, 2002, right? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And you see that the recipient of that package is someone named Lisa Anasrons is how it's spelled? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And the sender of that is G. Maxwell; correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. And safe to say that this is not a package going to anybody named Carolyn, right? 8 A. It is not. 9 Q. It's going to Lisa Anasrons, whoever that may be, right? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Okay. Let's look at another one from this invoice, page 8. I'll ask you to look at both of these transactions, if we could. These are both FedEx packages that were picked up for shipment on December 10th of 2002; correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And if we look at the first one, the recipient there is listed there as Isabel Maxwell? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And the sender is G. Maxwell? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And if you look down at the next one, the recipient there is Ron Burckle, right? 18 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019160 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 37 of 49 2010 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And again, sender of that package same day is G. Maxwell, right? 3 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. And in both the sender -- again, we have that information, 6 Jeffrey Epstein, 457 Madison Avenue, right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. So the first package looks like it's going to Isabel 9 Maxwell, and the second going to Ron Burckle, right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Neither one of those is named Carolyn; correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And, in fact, there is no shipment or transaction reflected 14 in this invoice where someone named Ghislaine Maxwell is 15 sending a package to someone named Carolyn, right? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. All right. And let's just look at the last invoice you 18 were shown by the government, that's Government's 802. 19 MR. EVERDELL: If you can pull that up. 20 A. Okay. 21 THE COURT: Jurors may turn to 802. 22 MR. EVERDELL: Thank you, your Honor. 23 Q. All right. Ms. Chapell, do you have that in front of you? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. All right. So looking at the first page, this is the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013578 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 37 of 49 2010 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And again, sender of that package same day is G. Maxwell, right? 3 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. And in both the sender -- again, we have that information, 6 Jeffrey Epstein, 457 Madison Avenue, right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. So the first package looks like it's going to Isabel 9 Maxwell, and the second going to Ron Burckle, right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Neither one of those is named Carolyn; correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And, in fact, there is no shipment or transaction reflected 14 in this invoice where someone named Ghislaine Maxwell is 15 sending a package to someone named Carolyn, right? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. All right. And let's just look at the last invoice you 18 were shown by the government, that's Government's 802. 19 MR. EVERDELL: If you can pull that up. 20 A. Okay. 21 THE COURT: Jurors may turn to 802. 22 MR. EVERDELL: Thank you, your Honor. 23 Q. All right. Ms. Chapell, do you have that in front of you? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. All right. So looking at the first page, this is the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019161 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 38 of 49 2011 LC9MAXT Chapell - cross 1 invoice dated December 23rd, 2002; correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. All right. Again, same account we're looking at of Jeffrey 4 Epstein? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. All right. Let's flip to page 8. I want you to take a 7 look at the middle of the three transactions there. We'll pull 8 that up. This was the transaction that you were shown by the 9 government on your direct, right? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. And that is a FedEx package picked up for shipment on 12 December 12th, 2002; correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. All right. And the recipient there, I'm, again, not going 15 to use full names, but the first name there is listed as 16 Cardine; correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And the address is West Palm Beach, Florida, right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. The sender there is J. Epstein, right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Safe to say that J. Epstein is not Ghislaine Maxwell, 23 right? 24 A. Right. 25 Q. Okay. Now, I want to show you some other transactions on SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013579 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 38 of 49 2011 LC9MAXT Chapell - cross 1 invoice dated December 23rd, 2002; correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. All right. Again, same account we're looking at of Jeffrey 4 Epstein? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. All right. Let's flip to page 8. I want you to take a 7 look at the middle of the three transactions there. We'll pull 8 that up. This was the transaction that you were shown by the 9 government on your direct, right? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. And that is a FedEx package picked up for shipment on 12 December 12th, 2002; correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. All right. And the recipient there, I'm, again, not going 15 to use full names, but the first name there is listed as 16 Cardine; correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And the address is West Palm Beach, Florida, right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. The sender there is J. Epstein, right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Safe to say that J. Epstein is not Ghislaine Maxwell, 23 right? 24 A. Right. 25 Q. Okay. Now, I want to show you some other transactions on SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019162 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 39 of 49 2012 LC9MAXT Chappell - cross that same invoice that you weren't shown by the government. And I want to stay on the same page and I want to look at the first transaction on the page. Okay. Now, I want to be careful about this. I don't want to use any names when we discuss this transaction, okay? A. Okay Q. All right. That is a package that was picked up for shipment on the same day as the one we just looked at, December 12th, 2002; correct? A. Yes Q. And I'm not going to name who the recipient is, but I'm going to refer to that person as "Jane," okay? A. Okay Q. So the recipient there is Jane. A. Yes Q. The sender is someone named J. Epstein; correct? A. Correct Q. Okay. Again, that is not Ghislaine Maxwell or G. Maxwell, right? A. No Q. Okay. Let's look at just a few others. Page 4 of the same invoice, and we'll look at the middle transaction here. All right. Now, that is a FedEx package that was picked up for shipment on December 9th of 2002, right? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013580 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 39 of 49 2012 LC9MAXT Chappell - cross that same invoice that you weren't shown by the government. And I want to stay on the same page and I want to look at the first transaction on the page. Okay. Now, I want to be careful about this. I don't want to use any names when we discuss this transaction, okay? A. Okay Q. All right. That is a package that was picked up for shipment on the same day as the one we just looked at, December 12th, 2002; correct? A. Yes Q. And I'm not going to name who the recipient is, but I'm going to refer to that person as "Jane," okay? A. Okay Q. So the recipient there is Jane. A. Yes Q. The sender is someone named J. Epstein; correct? A. Correct Q. Okay. Again, that is not Ghislaine Maxwell or G. Maxwell, right? A. No Q. Okay. Let's look at just a few others. Page 4 of the same invoice, and we'll look at the middle transaction here. All right. Now, that is a FedEx package that was picked up for shipment on December 9th of 2002, right? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019163 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 40 of 49 2013 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. That was just a few days before the shipments we just looked at on December 12th, right? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And you see the recipient here is listed as someone named Laura Casey Wasserman, right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And the sender is G. Maxwell? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. This obviously is -- the recipient is not anyone named Carolyn or Cardine, right? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And again, let's look at page 5, the next page. And look at the first transaction on this invoice. That is a FedEx package picked up for shipment on December 10th of 2002, right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And the recipient there is someone named Danny Hillis? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And the sender is G. Maxwell? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Danny Hillis is not named Carolyn or Cardine or anything like that, right? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. And again, on this invoice there is no transaction reflected on this invoice where someone named Ghislaine Maxwell SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013581 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 40 of 49 2013 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. That was just a few days before the shipments we just looked at on December 12th, right? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And you see the recipient here is listed as someone named Laura Casey Wasserman, right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And the sender is G. Maxwell? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. This obviously is -- the recipient is not anyone named Carolyn or Cardine, right? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And again, let's look at page 5, the next page. And look at the first transaction on this invoice. That is a FedEx package picked up for shipment on December 10th of 2002, right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And the recipient there is someone named Danny Hillis? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And the sender is G. Maxwell? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Danny Hillis is not named Carolyn or Cardine or anything like that, right? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. And again, on this invoice there is no transaction reflected on this invoice where someone named Ghislaine Maxwell SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019164 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 41 of 49 2014 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 or G. Maxwell is sending any packages to anybody named Carolyn 2 or Cardine or anything like that? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. You can put those down. 5 MR. EVERDELL: And the jurors, with the Court's 6 permission, can do the same. 7 THE COURT: Yes. Thank you. 8 Q. Ms. Chapell, I'll just wait a moment. 9 Before you came to testify today, you had some phone 10 calls with the government; is that right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And that was to prepare your testimony today; correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And before you spoke to them, they sent you those three 15 invoices that we were just talking about, is that right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And you looked at them to verify that they were true and 18 accurate records that FedEx had in their system, right? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And those were the only invoices they sent you to verify; 21 is that right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Those three that we were looking at? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. And I think they were so old at that point that you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013582 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 41 of 49 2014 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross or G. Maxwell is sending any packages to anybody named Carolyn or Cardine or anything like that? A. Correct. Q. You can put those down. MR. EVERDELL: And the jurors, with the Court's permission, can do the same. THE COURT: Yes. Thank you. Q. Ms. Chapell, I'll just wait a moment. Before you came to testify today, you had some phone calls with the government; is that right? A. Yes. Q. And that was to prepare your testimony today; correct? A. Yes. Q. And before you spoke to them, they sent you those three invoices that we were just talking about, is that right? A. Yes. Q. And you looked at them to verify that they were true and accurate records that FedEx had in their system, right? A. Yes. Q. And those were the only invoices they sent you to verify; is that right? A. Yes. Q. Those three that we were looking at? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And I think they were so old at that point that you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019165 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 42 of 49 2015 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross actually had to go back and look at archived copies to verify that they were true records, right? A. Correct. Q. They weren't still in your system; you had to go back to the boxes in the warehouse, right? A. Correct. Q. But you were able to do that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Now, do you recall at any point where the defense sent you some invoices to verify? A. Yes. Q. And do you remember how many roughly you were sent by the defense? A. There were several hundred. Q. And were they from the same account or different accounts? A. Two different accounts. Q. Were those accounts associated with Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes, they were both his. Q. And what were you asked to do with those records? A. Just verify the records. Q. Were you able to take those records and verify them with the records in the boxes, that they were accurate business records? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And these were all records for accounts that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013583 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 42 of 49 2015 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross actually had to go back and look at archived copies to verify that they were true records, right? A. Correct. Q. They weren't still in your system; you had to go back to the boxes in the warehouse, right? A. Correct. Q. But you were able to do that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Now, do you recall at any point where the defense sent you some invoices to verify? A. Yes. Q. And do you remember how many roughly you were sent by the defense? A. There were several hundred. Q. And were they from the same account or different accounts? A. Two different accounts. Q. Were those accounts associated with Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes, they were both his. Q. And what were you asked to do with those records? A. Just verify the records. Q. Were you able to take those records and verify them with the records in the boxes, that they were accurate business records? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And these were all records for accounts that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019166 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 43 of 49 2016 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 belonged to Jeffrey Epstein, right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And can you explain just how you were able to verify them? 4 A. I went back to the paper copies and verified the invoices 5 one by one. 6 Q. Okay. 7 MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, I'm going to do this in 8 paper, if I could. May I approach? 9 THE COURT: You may. 10 MR. EVERDELL: Okay. 11 THE COURT: Showing the witness what's been marked as 12 Defendant's TC-1; is that correct? 13 MR. EVERDELL: Correct, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Okay. 15 BY MR. EVERDELL: 16 Q. All right. Ms. Chapell, do you have in front of you what's 17 been marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit TC-1? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Now, do you recognize what those are? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What are they? 22 A. Jeffrey Epstein invoices. 23 Q. Are those some of the records that were provided to you by 24 the defense? 25 A. Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013584 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 43 of 49 2016 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 belonged to Jeffrey Epstein, right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And can you explain just how you were able to verify them? 4 A. I went back to the paper copies and verified the invoices 5 one by one. 6 Q. Okay. 7 MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, I'm going to do this in 8 paper, if I could. May I approach? 9 THE COURT: You may. 10 MR. EVERDELL: Okay. 11 THE COURT: Showing the witness what's been marked as 12 Defendant's TC-1; is that correct? 13 MR. EVERDELL: Correct, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Okay. 15 BY MR. EVERDELL: 16 Q. All right. Ms. Chapell, do you have in front of you what's 17 been marked for identification as Defendant's Exhibit TC-1? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Now, do you recognize what those are? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What are they? 22 A. Jeffrey Epstein invoices. 23 Q. Are those some of the records that were provided to you by 24 the defense? 25 A. Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019167 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 44 of 49 2017 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 Q. Are they all of the several hundred records or just a subset of those records? 2 A. Just a few. 3 Q. And how many roughly are there? 4 A. In this stack? 5 Q. Yes. 6 A. About 50. 7 Q. And what year or years do those invoices come from? 8 A. 2002. 9 Q. And how is it that you recognize that that's what those are? 10 A. Because I verified it with the originals that we produced. 11 Q. But how do you know that it's the same invoices that you were asked to look at? 12 A. I initialed at the bottom. 13 Q. Now, were those records that you're looking at in Defense Exhibit TC-1 made at or near the time of the shipping records that are reflected in the invoice? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And are they based on information that was available at the time that those shipments were made? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And is it the regular practice of Federal Express to make invoices like this? 18 A. Yes. 19 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013585 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 44 of 49 2017 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 Q. Are they all of the several hundred records or just a subset of those records? 2 A. Just a few. 3 Q. And how many roughly are there? 4 A. In this stack? 5 Q. Yes. 6 A. About 50. 7 Q. And what year or years do those invoices come from? 8 A. 2002. 9 Q. And how is it that you recognize that that's what those are? 10 A. Because I verified it with the originals that we produced. 11 Q. But how do you know that it's the same invoices that you were asked to look at? 12 A. I initialed at the bottom. 13 Q. Now, were those records that you're looking at in Defense Exhibit TC-1 made at or near the time of the shipping records that are reflected in the invoice? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And are they based on information that was available at the time that those shipments were made? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And is it the regular practice of Federal Express to make invoices like this? 18 A. Yes. 19 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019168 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 45 of 49 2018 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 Q. And were these invoices kept in the regular course of FedEx's business? 2 A. Yes. 3 MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, at this time the defense offers Defense Exhibit TC-1 under temporary seal. We have not yet had the chance to make the appropriate redactions, but we will do so as soon as we can. 4 MR. ROHRBACH: No objection. 5 THE COURT: Thank you. Defendant's TC-1 is admitted under temporary seal until narrow redactions can be offered. 6 (Defendant's Exhibit TC-1 received in evidence) 7 MR. EVERDELL: Absolutely, your Honor. 8 And if the jurors would like to take a look, with the Court's permission, there is a folder underneath their chairs with this exhibit. 9 THE COURT: Yes, please. You can open the folder to Defendant's Exhibit TC-1. 10 BY MR. EVERDELL: 11 Q. Ms. Chapell, I'm not going to go through these records with you -- and the jurors are free to review it if they like -- but I have no further questions for this witness. 12 THE COURT: Okay. 13 MR. ROHRBACH: Nothing further, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Chapell, thank you. 15 You are excused. You may step down. 16 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013586 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 45 of 49 2018 LC9VMAXT Chapell - cross 1 Q. And were these invoices kept in the regular course of FedEx's business? 2 A. Yes. 3 MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, at this time the defense offers Defense Exhibit TC-1 under temporary seal. We have not 4 yet had the chance to make the appropriate redactions, but we 5 will do so as soon as we can. 6 MR. ROHRBACH: No objection. 7 THE COURT: Thank you. Defendant's TC-1 is admitted 8 under temporary seal until narrow redactions can be offered. 9 (Defendant's Exhibit TC-1 received in evidence) 10 MR. EVERDELL: Absolutely, your Honor. 11 And if the jurors would like to take a look, with the 12 Court's permission, there is a folder underneath their chairs 13 with this exhibit. 14 THE COURT: Yes, please. You can open the folder to 15 Defendant's Exhibit TC-1. 16 BY MR. EVERDELL: 17 Q. Ms. Chapell, I'm not going to go through these records with you -- and the jurors are free to review it if they like -- but 18 I have no further questions for this witness. 19 THE COURT: Okay. 20 MR. ROHRBACH: Nothing further, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Chapell, thank you. 22 You are excused. You may step down. 23 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019169 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 46 of 49 LC9VMAXT 1 (Witness excused) 2 MS. MODE: Your Honor, could I have just a moment to confer with the defense? 3 THE COURT: You may. 4 (Counsel conferred) 5 THE COURT: Members of the jury, you may put the folder back under your seats. 6 MS. COMEY: Your Honor with the defense's consent, we'd ask to be heard in the robing room please. 7 THE COURT: Okay. You anticipate an extended sidebar? 8 MS. COMEY: We just need to be in the robing room, your Honor. 9 THE COURT: Okay. Why don't I send the jury back to the jury room for a break and then -- 10 MS. MODE: Thank you, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: Yes, to the regular room. 12 (Jury not present) 13 THE COURT: All right. I'll hear you in the robing room. This is an extended discussion; 14 MS. MODE: I'm not sure, your Honor, but our joint preference would be to be heard in the robing room. 15 THE COURT: Okay. All right. 16 (Pages 2020 to 2024 SEALED) 17 (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013587 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 46 of 49 2019 LC9VMAXT 1 (Witness excused) 2 MS. MODE: Your Honor, could I have just a moment to confer with the defense? 3 THE COURT: You may. 4 (Counsel conferred) 5 6 THE COURT: Members of the jury, you may put the folder back under your seats. 7 8 MS. COMEY: Your Honor with the defense's consent, we'd ask to be heard in the robing room please. 9 10 THE COURT: Okay. You anticipate an extended sidebar? 11 MS. COMEY: We just need to be in the robing room, your Honor. 12 13 THE COURT: Okay. Why don't I send the jury back to the jury room for a break and then -- 14 15 MS. MODE: Thank you, your Honor. 16 THE COURT: Yes, to the regular room. 17 (Jury not present) 18 THE COURT: All right. I'll hear you in the robing room. This is an extended discussion; 19 20 MS. MODE: I'm not sure, your Honor, but our joint preference would be to be heard in the robing room. 21 22 THE COURT: Okay. All right. 23 (Pages 2020 to 2024 SEALED) 24 (Continued on next page) 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019170 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 47 of 49 2025 LC9VMAXT 1 (In open court) 2 THE COURT: Bring in the jury. 3 MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor? 4 MS. MENNINGER: Our client is not here. 5 THE COURT: I'm going to step off. 6 (Recess) 7 THE COURT: We'll bring in the jury. 8 (Jury present) 9 THE COURT: Thank you, members of the jury. 10 I've been informed there's an attorney in the case who's ill, and that attorney needs to get care. We have no reason to believe it's COVID-related, but we do need that attorney for what was anticipated to happen today. So we need to break. 11 My assumption is we'll resume tomorrow morning at our normal time. And I'll give you any additional information, if I have that information. But we want to make sure the attorney is taken care of. And rather than pause and delay, we're going to break for the day. 12 So all of my instructions apply. 13 Thank you for your time and attention. 14 We'll see you tomorrow morning. Thank you. 15 (Jury not present) 16 THE COURT: Counsel, is there anything we can take up now or wait until we get further word? 17 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013588 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 47 of 49 2025 LC9VMAXT 1 (In open court) 2 THE COURT: Bring in the jury. 3 MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor? 4 MS. MENNINGER: Our client is not here. 5 THE COURT: I'm going to step off. 6 (Recess) 7 THE COURT: We'll bring in the jury. 8 (Jury present) 9 THE COURT: Thank you, members of the jury. 10 I've been informed there's an attorney in the case who's ill, and that attorney needs to get care. We have no reason to believe it's COVID-related, but we do need that attorney for what was anticipated to happen today. So we need to break. 11 My assumption is we'll resume tomorrow morning at our normal time. And I'll give you any additional information, if I have that information. But we want to make sure the attorney is taken care of. And rather than pause and delay, we're going to break for the day. 12 So all of my instructions apply. 13 Thank you for your time and attention. 14 We'll see you tomorrow morning. Thank you. 15 (Jury not present) 16 THE COURT: Counsel, is there anything we can take up now or wait until we get further word? 17 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 48 of 49 2026 LC9VMAXT MS. COMEY: I don't believe there's anything we can take up now, your Honor. We will keep the Court and the defense informed. THE COURT: Okay. MR. EVERDELL: Nothing from the defense, your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Thank you, everyone. We're adjourned till tomorrow. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. (Adjourned to December 10, 2021 at 8:45 a.m.) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013589 --- PAGE BREAK --- Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 757 Filed 08/10/22 Page 48 of 49 2026 LC9VMAXT MS. COMEY: I don't believe there's anything we can take up now, your Honor. We will keep the Court and the defense informed. THE COURT: Okay. MR. EVERDELL: Nothing from the defense, your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Thank you, everyone. We're adjourned till tomorrow. MS. MOE: Thank you, your Honor. (Adjourned to December 10, 2021 at 8:45 a.m.) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00019172